Inherently submissive, inherently Dominant?

[Se****]

I’m not 100% sure where I’m going with this writing so please bear with me and, as ever, I mean no ill will or malice or rudeness by it. Really it is a (messy) working of things my mind has been ruminating for some time. 

I’ve been around here a little while now and I’ve chatted with one or two people (or three or four). Some Dominant, some pseudo Dominant, some submissive, some unsure, you get the drift… 

I think I know what it is I need and what I’m looking for BUT there often seems to be a “thing” - maybe an “ick factor”? I’m not sure exactly. 

I have this idea in my head about what a manly man is - I’m not saying the idea is right or that persons who don’t conform to my idea are less manly (despite that being what it sounds like). More that the imagery in my head is what appeals to me and what I find to be a turn on. 

And yes I do know the term compromise and I am willing to do so, within reason. I also know the terms limits and boundaries and I do actually have them. 

So, my conundrum occurs when I am speaking with someone who appears to “tick” my boxes who then innocently mentions something they enjoy that turns me off somewhat. Most recently things that have been mentioned are those that I see as inherently submissive traits or desires. 

I’m not prepared (at this time) to discuss what exactly these traits, kinks, needs, fetishes or desires are, suffice it to say that there are various and they have been with different people.

Considering that I think myself to be an open minded, each to their own type of person I do wonder about my own feelings and beliefs when I think like this. I don’t believe that how these people feel or what they enjoy is wrong, I do wonder why it makes them seem less Dominant/domineering in my eyes. 

A persons wants etc makes them neither more nor less than another person so why does this have the power to change how I think about a situation. 

Are there types of trait that are inherently Dominant or submissive (apart from the obvious of giving/taking control) or should this whole D/s, M/s, kink, whatever lifestyle be viewed as a fluid continuum that shifts and changes like the tides? 

Feel free to discuss, however any offensiveness will mean I ask mods to close the comments. 

Love, X

[Deleted Member]

Interesting topic.

Are there some traits that could be considered more dominant than others? Probably. 

But I think what you are fundamentally struggling with is the age old problem that we do not have much control over what turns us on or turns us off.

So the things that are turning you off them are clearly embedded in your mind as things you don't like. You can't help that as much as I can't help being turned on by latex.

All you can do is decide yourself if it turns you off them completely. 

 

[Hal727]

I think you have just described the situation most of us are in, including individuals who consider themselves to be vanilla. I can’t answer the why of it, other than that we all begin, seeing, smelling, touching, being touched etc. at birth, and by the time we become sexually active adults we have come down many different pathways. I don’t like the word “normal”, but I think we all experience some of what you describe here. I doubt that there is a human alive who doesn’t have a few biases, sexual or otherwise, that they can’t explain.
Great question btw!

[ge****]

First and foremost if something is a turn off for you, it doesn't matter a jot whether it's "inherently" anything - if it's enough of a turn off to put you off pursuing that person then that is all that matters no matter what the "thing" is.
.
A lot may however depend on how important that "thing" is to the other person and whether they, or you, are willing to compromise around it and that can only come from open and honest discussion.
.
Ultimately though if neither of you can compromise, neither of you are wrong, you're just not right for each other.
.
Yes, views, tastes etc change with time but again you shouldn't compromise if something's really not for you. You can no more control your likes/dislikes than the next person.

[Se****]

48 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

First and foremost if something is a turn off for you, it doesn't matter a jot whether it's "inherently" anything - if it's enough of a turn off to put you off pursuing that person then that is all that matters no matter what the "thing" is.
.
A lot may however depend on how important that "thing" is to the other person and whether they, or you, are willing to compromise around it and that can only come from open and honest discussion.
.
Ultimately though if neither of you can compromise, neither of you are wrong, you're just not right for each other.
.
Yes, views, tastes etc change with time but again you shouldn't compromise if something's really not for you. You can no more control your likes/dislikes than the next person.

Oh stop being so flipping sensible 🙄

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Oh stop being so flipping sensible 🙄

😆😆😆 Reality sucks huh! 🤣

[AKA_Copper]

3 hours ago, FatefulDestiny said:

Oh stop being so flipping sensible 🙄

His 🍑 is wood I'm telling you 😂

[AKA_Copper]

Is it more to do with social constructs with regards to, these are the characteristics of men, these are the characteristics of women rather than having a base in D/s although it may actually be affecting your thoughts on what D/s relationships 'should' look like for you as an individual but actually are present in everyday life if we exclude the D/s aspect and actually the D/s is a red herring?
.
I get it, some things for me are an instant turn off and if present I couldn't be in a relationship with someone let alone a D/s one

[Se****]

13 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Is it more to do with social constructs with regards to, these are the characteristics of men, these are the characteristics of women rather than having a base in D/s although it may actually be affecting your thoughts on what D/s relationships 'should' look like for you as an individual but actually are present in everyday life if we exclude the D/s aspect and actually the D/s is a red herring?
.
I get it, some things for me are an instant turn off and if present I couldn't be in a relationship with someone let alone a D/s one

***y red herrings now too 🙄🤣

[AKA_Copper]

1 minute ago, FatefulDestiny said:

***y red herrings now too 🙄🤣

Could be worse, could be a wet one 😂

[ge****]

53 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

His 🍑 is wood I'm telling you 😂

My bum is definitely not wooden I can assure you of that!! 🤣😂

[Se****]

36 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Could be worse, could be a wet one 😂

🤣🤣🤣

[AKA_Copper]

40 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

My bum is definitely not wooden I can assure you of that!! 🤣😂

😂😂

[BruiseWayne]

Maybe you're putting unrealistic expectations for what you think a 'manly' man, or a Dom in general, is supposed to be on to these guys? People exist on a spectrum of feminine to masculine, and no one person is completely one thing without the other. Any man who denies they have at least SOME feminine traits is lying to themselves, and to you, and the reverse is also true for women.

 

Nowadays in our society there's less of a stigma for men to embrace more things that would be considered traditionally feminine and IMHO that's a good thing.

 

The peak ideal for what a 'man' is supposed to be/look like is ALWAYS changing anyway.

 

Take the founding fathers of America for instance... They were the Chads of their day. To us they look like effeminate frilly lil fancybois with their puffy shirts, makeup, calf high buckled boots, and powdered wigs.

 

Back then though? That was the very height of masculinity.

 

Kinda helps you put things in perspective...

 

But having said all that, ultimately you like what you like, and you're not necessarily wrong for some preference you have unless it's rooted in something unethical like racial superiority or some weirdo shit like that.

Edited April 7, 2023 by BruiseWayne

[Se****]

4 hours ago, BruiseWayne said:

Maybe you're putting unrealistic expectations for what you think a 'manly' man, or a Dom in general, is supposed to be on to these guys? People exist on a spectrum of feminine to masculine, and no one person is completely one thing without the other. Any man who denies they have at least SOME feminine traits is lying to themselves, and to you, and the reverse is also true for women.

 

Nowadays in our society there's less of a stigma for men to embrace more things that would be considered traditionally feminine and IMHO that's a good thing.

 

The peak ideal for what a 'man' is supposed to be/look like is ALWAYS changing anyway.

 

Take the founding fathers of America for instance... They were the Chads of their day. To us they look like effeminate frilly lil fancybois with their puffy shirts, makeup, calf high buckled boots, and powdered wigs.

 

Back then though? That was the very height of masculinity.

 

Kinda helps you put things in perspective...

 

But having said all that, ultimately you like what you like, and you're not necessarily wrong for some preference you have unless it's rooted in something unethical like racial superiority or some weirdo shit like that.

It’s not really about a person having feminine or masculine traits. - one could argue that giving a hug or showing affection is a feminine trait yet it’s one I definitely see as part of being “manly”. 

The post is more about whether some “acts” are more sub or Dom leaning than others. 

[BruiseWayne]

58 minutes ago, FatefulDestiny said:

It’s not really about a person having feminine or masculine traits. - one could argue that giving a hug or showing affection is a feminine trait yet it’s one I definitely see as part of being “manly”. 

The post is more about whether some “acts” are more sub or Dom leaning than others. 

You mentioned manliness specifically though. You might have your own definition of what that is, but we both know that word conjures up a whole lot of images and stereotypical traits the majority of people who hear it are going to have put in their head.

 

Also someone else might see shows of feelings and emotional vulnerability as an inherently submissive, feminine act. I'm not one of them- I just think it's healthy regardless of anything gendered or otherwise, but plenty of others will interpret it that way and judge people accordingly.

 

It might help if you said specifically what it is you feel is submissive enough of a display/interest/attitude/whatever from an otherwise dominant male you're feelin everything else about that's turning you off so much too because I'm still getting the sense that maybe you're holding them to too high a standard, whatever your personal image of what a 'manly' male Dom is supposed to be.

Edited April 7, 2023 by BruiseWayne

[Th****]

Dominance and submission are neither masculine nor feminine and specific acts aren't inherently dominant or submissive. Certain traits and behaviors are only labeled as "masculine" or "feminine" because of societal norms that are very often toxic and unproductive.

 

That being said, we still like what we like. But to me it appears as if you might be overly influenced by these ideals and you may have some unpacking and introspection to do there. Sit with it a bit and really consider *why* you feel like whatever it is is unappealing to you. Without telling us the specifics it's difficult to give much more advice. 

 

 

[Se****]

51 minutes ago, ThaliaVirago said:

Dominance and submission are neither masculine nor feminine and specific acts aren't inherently dominant or submissive. Certain traits and behaviors are only labeled as "masculine" or "feminine" because of societal norms that are very often toxic and unproductive.

 

That being said, we still like what we like. But to me it appears as if you might be overly influenced by these ideals and you may have some unpacking and introspection to do there. Sit with it a bit and really consider *why* you feel like whatever it is is unappealing to you. Without telling us the specifics it's difficult to give much more advice. 

 

 

I completely agree with you that they are neither masculine nor feminine, I’m not sure I ever implied otherwise but as I said at the beginning this writing was a rough working of thoughts in my head so maybe I implied something I didn’t intend to. 

What I actually believe is that Dominance/submission (or anything else really) is subjective to personal interpretation. Whilst everybody can comprehend the overarching tenet of the terms the intricacies of each are unique to the individual. I do concede that they often marry with the general consensus this isn’t always the case. 

I’m not actually looking for advice per se, more questioning myself out loud and/or seeing if my thoughts ring true with others. Are there “acts” that are given/received/enjoyed specifically by someone who is Dominant presenting or someone who is submissive presenting? And I am genuinely curious about the answer to this. 

Perhaps as an example (please note this is NOT something that has happened in real life and has NOT given me an “ick”): orgasm denial/control seems to be an act that is inherently Dominant to en*** and submissive to “receive”/accept. But what about the Dom who enjoys being teased and having their orgasms controlled by another? Yes, I get this is at its base level about someone’s likes and desires but does it factor into whether someone is seen as “less” of a “real” Dom because they enjoy being on the receiving end of an act that usually a sub would receive. 

This is the kind of thing I’ve been pondering - overthinker much? Hell yes. 

And before this comment causes a raging backlash of fury from anyone - it is not intended in ANY WAY to be derogatory or offensive. Some of the words are deliberately in “…” so that they are taken as not being “gospel” as it were. It is once again the weird workings of my mind.