A question of dominance?

[Re****]

So here is the question. A dom has a sub. The sub is not dominant at all. The dom can be switch.
A play session is taking part and the dom says to the sub, "I am now asking you to sit upon my face and let me pleasure you because you have been good"
The subrefuses saying they cannot do that as its a dominant act and the sub is not dom
Therefore the questions are
1. Who is correct in this instance?
2 why?
3. If the dom is demanding it should the sub comply even if they feel its a dominant act?
4. Why?

A nice debate I feel

[Deleted Member]

If it a reward not a dominant act in my eyes I would do as I am told and enjoy my reward for being good!

[Deleted Member]

And I would comply to my masters demands as if he feels he wants it then usnt it just as much the subs job to please him as much as he is willing to please me

[Deleted Member]

Well, there’s not really a correct stance on this. If the submissive isn’t comfortable being pleasured FROM THAT ANGLE, then the Dominant should be able to understand and adapt. But a submissive should also be able to follow their Dominants instructions.
If a Dominant is demanding, I think it would be alright for the submissive to follow instructions.
But things like this should be discussed prior to playing out a scene. What feels dominant to both parties, what could feel submissive, what sends the dominant into DomSpace, what send the submissive into SubSpace. I think this would be a nice discussion for D/s parties involved to have. Great question! 😊 Will keep reading for the sake of comments.

[Deleted Member]

For me, the activity itself matters not, if it's what the Dominant wants then thats the end of it, whether it's seen as  a reward or not. It's about how it makes one feel, and what one may interpret as a submissive act, can infact be anything but, if that's what the Dominant enjoys/wants. All are so unique, and as such so can be any relationship/dynamic. If it fits it fits, and if any act may make the submissive feel ucomfortable, then even better.

 

[bi****]

The sub. DS play is a dynamic, its not the play that matters, it entirely how it affects each person. (sure, play for play's sake is fine, but its not DS, its just a kink activity). If the sub is submissive and gets no thrill from being told to do dominant acts, then its not exactly a reward at all. Possibly a sub would be ok being told to face-sit another sub, you can see how that still fits the dynamic of still being dominated by a dominant who is not participating in the "submissive" act.

There are ways around this, typically after play where the sub is told they can have a reward if they'd like their pussy licked - but the dom cannot be bothered to get up, so the sub will have to do the work by bring their pussy over to be licked - that's slightly dominant still without breaking the dynamic so much, especially if combined with other restrictions like no wriggling, hands held above head, etc. Still might not work depending on the sub though.

[Kar_som]

1. Dom is correct
2. Sub is for dom's pleasure, so it should do anything.
3. Yes
4.. By definition, sub is one who submit. So sub should do it otherwise continues decline of command is itself a dominating act.

[Deleted Member]

I am going to try to answer this seriously, even though my brain is screaming wtf, pussy eating is on offer and someone turns it down because of the angle at which it’s delivered? Do you send back a stake because it’s served in the top right corner of the plate, instead of the centre or the waiter approached you on the left hand side instead of the right?? No, you don’t - food is coming and you love food, right? 😉

So, I wonder if the sub was on their back, would that make a difference in how the act is viewed. What if the Dom called it not ‘pleasuring’ but ‘teasing’? And do they wrongly consider the act too submissive for a Dom to do, in which case the question of the angle is a mute point. There is also the question, if face sitting isn’t on the subs hard limits list, isn’t the refusal an attempt to top from the bottom? Many questions, no one right answer.
I would personally send the sub to have their head examined , but that’s because I love food 🙂

[Blackadder1978]

This has made my head ache a bit. Part of me says the sub is wrong because it's what the dom wants to do, but part of me thinks the sub is right because there's a respect and consent element here that is potentially being breached. I think both interpretations are potentially right, and it will depend on the context of a specific dom/sub relationship. I mean, you could even argue the sub is just being bratty, but without more context it isn't possible to tell.

[Deleted Member]

12 minutes ago, Blackadder1978 said:

 but part of me thinks the sub is right because there's a respect and consent element here that is potentially being breached. 

Not if it's been discussed beforehand, as really most things are.  Cnc I believe with total clarity on absolute limits, however is different. It's all about the two, their thing, how they have evolved, and for me no right or wrong way.

[Th****]

Firstly there is no right or wrong way. Each to there own personal call and everyone differs.

From my perspective this is easy.

The submissive is acting as a technical top under the direction of her Dominant. Meaning she is carrying out an act that is often associated with the Top/dominant but under the direction of her Dominant. Thus remaining submissive.

The Dominant is telling his submissive what he wants.

It should be added though if she is not happy with this she did exactly the right thing raising it immediately.

[qu****]

Depends purely on any limits that have been talked about and set

[ey****]

3 hours ago, sitonmyface2020 said:

1. Who is correct in this instance?
2 why?

Both are correct.

The Dominant wants their submissive to do something and has requested it.  It is presented as a reward, but it is also for the Dominants wants.

The submissive does not feel comfortable with this idea and cannot get into the headspace.  They are correct to say no.  Outside of play this can then be discussed as of if it could be something she is comfortable with.

3 hours ago, sitonmyface2020 said:

3. If the dom is demanding it should the sub comply even if they feel its a dominant act?
4. Why?

Depends on the nature of their relationship.

If they have a CNC relationship then the sub should comply

But for any other then no - there's always a right to decline.

Equally, if it is a CNC relationship and something was asked that was a no, then there's a problem here with the two's communication and boundaries and resolving that is the bigger issue here. 

[Deleted Member]

To go a bit rogue. I wouldn't class face sitting as a dom / submissive act anyway. I do not think there is a power difference there. It's just a sex act. Its kinky / borderline vanilla? A lot of people sure fantasizse about and you can make it into a bdsm if you include something like *** or bondage along with it. But the act alone I just don't view it as a dom / sub thing.

But in your scenario. Of course if the sub is uncomfortable with it then it doesn't happen. No matter who is right or wrong. But hopefully we all know that 😅

Maybe if the dom would be asking the sub to spank him.( That would be a little weird) but might make more of a dilemma

[ey****]

17 minutes ago, Foxter said:

To go a bit rogue. I wouldn't class face sitting as a dom / submissive act anyway. I do not think there is a power difference there. It's just a sex act.

Often - many acts that are deemed Dom / submissive aren't necessarily (and face sitting doesn't necessarily have to be sexual) though I can understand how being asked to do it could affect someone's head space

[Deleted Member]

So it’s in the asking… but then the Dom(switch) would likely not feel submissive. If you ask in a submissive way the submissive will likely not enjoy it. But if you ask in a Dominant way then how would the switch have their sub needs satisfied?🤔… catch 22

One dominant way would be to ask:

Dom: “I’m feeling lazy but want to taste your pussy”, (maybe throw in a “whore” for good measure😈)… “you are to position yourself on top of my face, and you are to say thank you regardless of weather or not you enjoy it, now get on with it, there’s a good (insert honorific/sub title/degrading term whatever)….” Then do my best to make sure they enjoy it.

But then you’re 100% in control so how are you being a switch🤔 it’s a conundrum.

I love having a pussy on my face like that, but there are no questions as to who is in control.

Asking like a submissive to a 100% submissive, they won’t respond, if anything you’re outside of their boundaries, so you may be breaking protocol and that’s actually a bit tricky, maybe even a consent problem, as in they don’t consent to being dominant.

Asking in a neutral/vanilla way - “I would like you to sit on my face” it’s a coin toss, they may have a feeling about that position, then not be comfortable… or they may be neutral about it and go for it because even though you didn’t ask like one you are still the Dom.”

Asking in a way of giving a reward (as in the OP’s example), that would be neutral because it balances out the fact that the Dom is asking…

So no simple answer in my brain. Good fun exercise though.

[th****]

Well… it depends if the sub is a brat and doing it to see how long they can push buttons and get punished

[An****]

My ex told me once that functionally the sub at all times essentially has the most power in any situation. They have the right to revoke consent, and it's their limits that are taken into consideration.

Though, I think the Dom's limits need to also be considered.

It's a conversation at the end of the day.

[Deleted Member]

Unless this was a hard/soft limit for the sub (it would be for me)
1. The Dom
2. Because that's the d/s dynamic I adhere to
3. Yes
3. It doesn't matter what the act is, the Dom is requesting it.

[Ae****]

I think... maybe it depends on how strongly the sub's aversion is.
Maybe if the sub feels very very uncomfortable with the nature of the act, psychologically, it can be viewed as a hard limit, so the dom needs to leave it alone, just as he may need to not engage in edge play, etc if the sub considers that act off limits.
It may, though, be a limit that the dom can push, as many subs enjoy and desire that :)

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Aeonova said:

I think... maybe it depends on how strongly the sub's aversion is.
Maybe if the sub feels very very uncomfortable with the nature of the act, psychologically, it can be viewed as a hard limit, so the dom needs to leave it alone, just as he may need to not engage in edge play, etc if the sub considers that act off limits.
It may, though, be a limit that the dom can push, as many subs enjoy and desire that :)

That was my view too. For me that particular activity/angle would be a hard limit because my aversion would upset me so much. A Dom who cares about me would not push me into it, even as a punishment.

[Deleted Member]

This is a really interesting question and one I originally pondered myself regarding dominant acts. 
However as a sub there is only one reply a sub can make and that’s yes Sir.  Being sub myself in a long term relationship that would be the only response I could give.  His job is to control and mine to be obedient, compliant and accepting. 
The Dom in your post above has issued an instruction.  
A Dom is not always going to ask a sub to do what she enjoys every time, where would be the test of obedience in that, she can always use her safe word of it’s that abhorrent. 

What’s really interesting is the more a sub perceives an act to be dominant the greater the submission is as it demonstrates more obedience and gives greater control.  

[ol****]

We don't understand enough about the dynamic to comment.

If the D knows the s hates this then it's unfair. Not everybody like having their pussy eaten.

[scuk1963]

1/ The Dom has given an instruction to his sub she should comply unless its a hard limit and that would have been known by the Dom

2/ Why because he is the Dom and she is the sub Remember 1 Subs Needs 2 Doms Needs 3 Doms wants 4 Subs wants she may not want to but his wants come first and this is true submission, doing the things you may not want to.  

3/ Yes she should comply it's more of a Dominant act to refuse. If the Dom likes this position and has requested the act by refusing you are questioning his Dominance and not fulfilling his wants.

4/ As above the Doms wants come before the subs wants if he is requesting something that is not a limit or harmful and the only reason not to do it is because she feels it compromises her submissiveness she is making decisions that compromise the Doms Dominance.

[ey****]

there's a general interest mixed replies and responses

but something... obviously a lot depends on the context of the relationship

But, pretty much everyone agrees that she should not comply if this is a limit.  Which means there'd always be a right to say no.   There'd always be a right to decline.  Because limits aren't exhaustive.

 

If you ask someone their limits they're only ever going to reply based on what they reasonably think you will ask.  This doesn't give grounds for a gotcha moment.

Limits are also changeable.  They have to be. We can get into this perfect idea of a submission, but a good Dominant would appreciate this and also why there is a no, and, if anything, help work with the sub on this no to see if it's reasonable to become a yes.