The Hive Mind Fallacy

[Blueberrypie]

This get dispenser mentality many would be subs have makes it diffucult for the rest of us as well. There seem to be so many of them that trying to talk to or get to know any dominant woman is harder for those of us truly in the LS interested in knowing the people but gktging past a hello is met with annoyed frustration and harder to do. I actually had a woman go off when I was totally polite inquiring if I could get to know more about her not pushy demanding etc. I replied that if not of interest a simple polite no thank you would have been fine and how I felt it was out of line. If swaying hi is an issue why be on social media. Long convo later I was amazed at the shit ton of crazy things she had told me about when she replied apologizing. I knew it could be a *** but it sounds like it's constant bs. I guess like in every other part of the world many are narrow sites and only concerned with themselves.
Anyway good post and stopping my novel and rant

[ey****]

To a degree.

I don't agree that one person's bad behaviour/approach makes it harder for others - even if it sometimes feels that way.

If we can be consciously aware  of the behaviour/approach that our intended audience finds off-putting, we know to avoid this in our approaches.  There can also be a slight air of reassurance, "Oh, there's so many subs/guys/whatever and so few Dommes/women/whatever" but when we know that many of these are not making a minimum bar on effort, that we are already in a better position.

 

[Mz****]

2 hours ago, Blueberrypie said:

This get dispenser mentality many would be subs have makes it diffucult for the rest of us as well. There seem to be so many of them that trying to talk to or get to know any dominant woman is harder for those of us truly in the LS interested in knowing the people but gktging past a hello is met with annoyed frustration and harder to do. I actually had a woman go off when I was totally polite inquiring if I could get to know more about her not pushy demanding etc. I replied that if not of interest a simple polite no thank you would have been fine and how I felt it was out of line. If swaying hi is an issue why be on social media. Long convo later I was amazed at the shit ton of crazy things she had told me about when she replied apologizing. I knew it could be a *** but it sounds like it's constant bs. I guess like in every other part of the world many are narrow sites and only concerned with themselves.
Anyway good post and stopping my novel and rant

I try to recognise that not all those approaching have that kind of mentality, and treat them, as I'd hope to be treated, as an individual..it's very difficult when most don't share that approach..there do come points when frustration at the masses boils over though, hence this post.

The hive mind fallacy extends deeper than the expectations of what we will physically look like or how we think as D types too, for example more than 4 messages and they expect to be declared owned, or to address you with their favourite honorific, they want to exchange numbers day one, have phone sex day two, meet day three, be in the basement a week later..any deviations and your fake.. completely irrelevant of chemistry, location, relationship goals, logistics, family or work commitments, finances, attraction, compatibility outside of kink, compatibility within kink, whay we actually want and so on and so on.

The fakes feed them fantasy, porn feeds them fantasy, they try and impose that onto us..as an unfortunate, although predictable consequence, the authentic on both sides of the slash suffer.

I can't message someone first without being some wallet rinsing scammer because "There's so many subs for each Domme a real one wouldn't need to message me" or "everyone knows the subs supposed to message first only a scammer or predator would dm" or "OMFG! What is it with you fucking Dommes messaging blind" ..all of these are replies I've received from sending out a polite.."Hello, saw you'd visited my profile a few times, thought I'd reach out and say hi, see if you wanted to know me a little better? No worries if not I know window shopping can be a thing 😉"   So I know where you're coming from,  all I can say is keep being you, and if someone is perhaps a little rude by your standards, recognise your standards don't apply to anyone but you and don't take it personally, similarly people often feel they are owed a response simply for not being creepy, or crude, they're not..they are much more likely to get one but there's no guarantees.

I appreciate your contribution, thank you for taking the time to make it.

 

[Mz****]

2 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

To a degree.

I don't agree that one person's bad behaviour/approach makes it harder for others - even if it sometimes feels that way.

If we can be consciously aware  of the behaviour/approach that our intended audience finds off-putting, we know to avoid this in our approaches.  There can also be a slight air of reassurance, "Oh, there's so many subs/guys/whatever and so few Dommes/women/whatever" but when we know that many of these are not making a minimum bar on effort, that we are already in a better position.

 

I think there's a snowball effect for sure, s types wary to talk about themselves on any real level because they're wary of scammers and catfish, D types suspicious of s types motives because of that and the generic, stereotype expectations, the negging you've mentioned, whatever gender, whatever role all mix together and no one benefits from that.

 

 

[Mz****]

@Wolfie90here..this might help 🤞

[Phoenyx]

Interesting.  I have not personally encountered this scenario is a couple years.  I had almost forgotten about it.  It is true, that most folks who first enter the public BDSM Scene, get that "kid in a candy store" feeling.  I am sure that we have all once experienced this feeling, in one form or another.  Often, what we discovered was far different than what we had been expecting.

The myth about successful Dom/mes seems all-too-common.  Fantasies show us living in some great castle or estate, with a vast harem of slaves and unlimited toys.  We can thank the entertainment industry for that.  Nor, are we one-dimensional---as in, BDSM being the sole focus of our lives.  Every "pro" that I knew (myself included) had some other sideline trade or freelance work, to pay most of the bills.  Some may even have steady jobs---though a strong D-type personality rarely fits into the corporate world.

As I mentioned, I have not had to deal with that fantasy in a couple years.  At one time, I was getting numerous questionable contacts from subs that lived extremely far from me.  I couldn't really tell which these "questionables" were legitimate and lost in the fantasy, and which were just scammers looking for alleged bus/plane fare (though I had my suspicions).  So, I developed a test.  Immediately, I told them, that they would have to make their own way here, find their own employment, and get set-up in their own place.  I concluded by saying, "You need to be able to serve yourself, before I deem you worthy to serve me."  So far, none of those "questionables" have accepted that challenge.

As for being the Borg, I am sure that there are some who have that fantasy.

[Mz****]

20 minutes ago, Phoenyx said:

It is true, that most folks who first enter the public BDSM Scene, get that "kid in a candy store" feeling.  I am sure that we have all once experienced this feeling, in one form or another.  Often, what we discovered was far different than what we had been expecting.

Thats a fabulous analogy, and yes, perhaps this site is that sweet shop for them..but that doesn't excuse their behaviour, nor is it a good enough reason to compel me to alter mine..particularly to suit them. The rest of message will usually decide if I send a polite no thank you, a polite no thank you with a word of advice about approaches, or a less polite no thank you, or indeed just a delete/delete and block.

I like your test, I may start borrowing it 😁

[ey****]

I remember some of my kid in a sweet shop phases.

I say some of mine because there was more than one occasion when I felt like the possibilities were endless.   

Whole new doors and worlds of possibilities open in front of me.

Mind.  I'm sure if I'd started messaging people with shopping lists of fetishes or what have you their view wouldn't be "Oh, another promising guy off on his little bit kink adventure, he needs to settle down a bit, so I will just spend a bit time grounding him and explaining the real world to him" and more "Fucks sake, another fantasist" 

[ey****]

I know this isn't quite the point above - but...

I won't say the media in the UK has no real interest in kink, but it's very.... blinkered.

Some is very much an audience in mind and that audience isn't one who are curious about kink and want to be eased in.

In terms of so-called 'lifestyle' they tend to romanticise things a bit.  Look for say a polycule where there is maybe a sub who doesn't live with them, but will turn up however many times a week/month for chores and play and be otherwise 'on call' y'know "come over, bring pizza" kinda thing.  and because there's only so much you can put into an hour long program that might be dealing with three different sets of 'odd' couples or relationships that there's only so much you can shoehorn into their segment about the background or building trust or so on.

In terms of professional the media likes the polars.  The really successful people those who are making four digits from subscription sites on top of what they make from sessions, or dancing, or whatever.   Or those who are on the breadline, who possibly either turned to some form of sex work as a 'last resort' or thought it would be easy *** and then got wrapped up in debt or narcotics or whatever.  So end up getting coerced into discount sessions or pushing boundaries in order to keep the lights on.

The media is very uninterested in those who....maybe... get by.   Who might get sizeable tributes, but these are exceptions not norm, they might have high 'per hour' tributes but also have dungeon hires or maintenance eating at it - or travelling to London every month for certs because their local clinic won't test more than once every 3 months - or keeping up a wardrobe or toy collection and all the other costs.  

But as I say the audience isn't "so you're interested in joining your local kink scene" or "how to find a kinky girlfriend" that's something folk do have on them themselves a bit.

[Blueberrypie]

I think I skipped the candy shop time period. I had a fairly gradual and steady slope into this world. Looking back I had a couple middle term relationships that were already lifestyle mixed with regular world stuff before I had noticed the community. 

Good post with great feedback all. There's some compassionate and great minds in the community once the online d bags and scammers are pushed aside but don't tell anyone or they'll expect intelligent answers all the time. 

We can't have that pressure on us being a bunch of freaks and kinksters! 😏

[ge****]

I think the problem lies with people losing sight of the fundamentals of any relationship (whether that be a one-off, a regular NSA thing or a full on romance - they're all "relationships" of a kind). Those fundamentals being connection, chemistry, attraction, trust, respect and more - they end up putting kink first and the relationship second and as such it all becomes very transactional, rather than a natural progression built on the foundation of those fundamentals.

Personally I'd find it very difficult to engage in any kind of activity without those being in place, and certainly wouldn't "demand" anything. Trouble is, as you say Ms Jax, all too often they see these things in porn, books or the media and think "I'll have some of that" without truly understanding what "that" is and whilst losing sight of it being a two way, mutually pleasurable and agreeable experience as well as losing sight of those fundamentals.

[Mz****]

10 hours ago, Blueberrypie said:

I think I skipped the candy shop time period. I had a fairly gradual and steady slope into this world. Looking back I had a couple middle term relationships that were already lifestyle mixed with regular world stuff before I had noticed the community. 

Good post with great feedback all. There's some compassionate and great minds in the community once the online d bags and scammers are pushed aside but don't tell anyone or they'll expect intelligent answers all the time. 

We can't have that pressure on us being a bunch of freaks and kinksters! 😏

Me too..probably for the best in my case, I'd probably have been overwhelmed in my early days...(it does feel like the dark ages, most reading this wouldn't even have been born then 😱) it was almost was akin to junkies sidling up to random people hoping they were dealers..we had to take cues from things like tattoos, jewellery and clothing, networking mattered if you wanted to be part of anything..all long since absorbed into the mainstream and no longer any sort of indication of anything..we were sneaking about as if we were criminals. The Internet was yet to exist.. a resource even now I wish was around back then..I eventually found a haven and had access to mentorship and support, educated myself and learnt a great deal, but, as it must, things change and evolve and I barely recognise the scene anymore. 

[Mz****]

7 hours ago, gemini_man said:

Trouble is, as you say Ms Jax, all too often they see these things in porn, books or the media and think "I'll have some of that" without truly understanding what "that" is and whilst losing sight of it being a two way, mutually pleasurable and agreeable experience as well as losing sight of those fundamentals.

Yup..people will insist on being people.

Selfish, fallible, greedy, horny, and blinkered..fortunately they're not the majority, and whilst there is undoubtedly a place for them, it's just not around me.

[fu****]

I was advised to read this, and glad I have, I understand that a dominant female has a lot more than a persona of thigh length pvc boots with a whip in her hand. I'm exploring the possibility of being submissive in person with a dominant female if she exists..... I ask that because I have a profile that states I'm looking for a Mistress /domme to have online role play with, for 3-4 years I have searched and have found genuine dominants online and have enjoyed a cyberfun experience with, the other 97 per cent of so called Mistress /dommes that have approached me have a shameful way of making the "Mistress" label look as if "do they actually exist?"...... Its now I know that anything that these profiles approach me... Words like Loyal, Trustworthy,... Honest.. They speak of everything but kinks, fetishes, bdsm. I learnt a hard way that a "genuine" Mistress set me a task which being obedient I completed the request of me stripping and sending a video via kik to be blackmailed that this video would be on social media, YouTube, a horrible thought. 

I have continued to explore being submissive because although rare I have had great experiences with dominant females via Skype and I have a lot to learn yet but do understand that you have kinks and are more than a pvc clad "stereo type"..... I want to explore the possibility to being dominated in person and I am a novice despite a few years online, I believe I am a submissive male that could adapt to IRL being involved more than a one off meeting with a" dominant female "... I like the idea of a superior female using me for her own selfish reasons, but it may never happen... If any dominant wants to advise me on how to be a good sub, I'm always willing to learn. I think that because there are so few dominant females.... Like rocking horse s#!*... To be honest makes "subs" unaware of how to approach, talk to but more importantly respect a "Mistress, goddess, Domme". 

Edited December 2, 2021 by funder_123

[ey****]

I think if over the past few years you've found folk and have had play, albeit online, then you've already had more success than some people manage.

There's a variety of reasons there and I won't put it as open and shut - but - yep.

The other thing as well - even excluding the element of those who are fake or scammers - if you walk into any room of people and there will always be people you don't hit it off with and those you're not compatible with.  Those whose ideas don't match yours.

Perseverance always goes a long way if you're building yourself (that doesn't mean 'keep trying' but keep improving) but it's always worth getting out to munches and fetish events as a surefire way to at least be in the same room as people who are definitely real.

[fu****]

Very wise words as you in all aspects of life you will find people you don't get on with, I like the thought of meeting people on the thought of being equal, I'm seeking IRL now because very difficult to find genuine online that is submissive and dominants.

[ey****]

yeah - I wouldn't say anything is right or wrong - but - online doesn't really work for me unless it's a kinda extension from a relationship with someone I know/met

[Ky****]

can someone explain the dispenser bit please? I'm not sure what this is about

[fu****]

Maybe what I'm seeking is not for me if it happens but I want to find out, I understand why you say about online not for you, that is all I have to compare to, its made me realise that I have loads still to explore if this lifestyle is for me, if it isn't I won't pursue it, but still respect the people that have found what they are looking for whichever role they seek.

[ey****]

19 minutes ago, Kymi said:

can someone explain the dispenser bit please? I'm not sure what this is about

It's often used to describe the way some (usually) sub men approach (usually) Dominant women - almost like they're ordering kinks off a menu, or, customising a drink from a drinks dispenser...

"Can I have a latte, with caramel syrup, skim milk and extra sugar?" vs "Hello Dominant lady I've never met - can you wear this outfit while I worship your feet and you humiliate me?"

[Mz****]

12 hours ago, funder_123 said:

I was advised to read this, and glad I have

Well, however you found it, thank you for taking the time to say you've found it helpful, I appreciate that.

[Mz****]

12 hours ago, Kymi said:

can someone explain the dispenser bit please? I'm not sure what this is about

It's how I describe being approached by those who aren't interested in anything about me except which kinks of theirs I can attend to, with no regard to my own fetishes, limits, or my preferred dynamics..these are almost always strangers I've had no interaction with at all, again there's expectations that Lifestyle Dommes will "offer services" a ProDomme would on tap and for free..when we don't of course we're accused of being  fake or scammers.

[fu****]

11 minutes ago, MzJax said:

Well, however you found it, thank you for taking the time to say you've found it helpful, I appreciate that.

Your post makes sense to me without a doubt submissive males(mainly, not all) don't see a female dominant as a person with kinks and desires, I can only refer to online as I said if so called submissives approach a Mistress /dommes it's done by lack of knowing how to, I don't think it's ignorance, there are so many profiles that give the term "Mistress" if the fakes n scammers weren't around I think the role would be respected, as it should.

[Mz****]

37 minutes ago, funder_123 said:

Your post makes sense to me without a doubt submissive males(mainly, not all) don't see a female dominant as a person with kinks and desires, I can only refer to online as I said if so called submissives approach a Mistress /dommes it's done by lack of knowing how to, I don't think it's ignorance, there are so many profiles that give the term "Mistress" if the fakes n scammers weren't around I think the role would be respected, as it should.

I'd hope I would be able to distinguish between someone genuinely unsure how to approach and fumbling a little, or someone nervous who ends up overcompensating and/or a little too obsequious, and someone who is disguised behind a convenient label to try their luck.

Incidentally, if you're unsure how to address someone in a first message..read the profile thoroughly, if someone has a preference it will usually say so there, if not just use their full screenname..if they have a preference when/if they reply they'll mention it.

[ey****]

one thing to always think on about a lot of the scammers

their mode is based on what men think Dominants are or "should be"  - when you understand that it becomes easier to spot the scams.