Nonbinary Dom(me)s

[Deleted Member]

So I'm new to the scene and I notice a lot of the language around Dominant partners is very gendered. To be honest, it's one of the things I have found the most alienating about getting into BDSM. I'd love to hear what kind of gender-neutral titles and such people might use!

[ey****]

my wife uses Mxtress ; I've seen a few others use it also

I have seen others who are non-binary either not use a title at all; or interchange with different people.   I have seen some AFAB non-binary Dominants use Daddy, though partially cos they like it and partially cos it angers fragile cis men.  

Boss is also a common one.

And "Your Elegance" or "Your Majesty" is also gender neutral. 

[PeggableFucker]

We have 5000 years of gender-biased history. Somehow, we seem to live in a dichotomic world. Good and evil, male female, clever stupid , alive dead etc... Not much we can do about that.
Whether you add or substract categories and labels will change nothing to this fact.
Some languages, such as English, already have a neutral gender. Many others, like French, don't. In English, it's just a question of inventing new words. For others, its more like a total overhaul is needed. It's not going to happen overnight. If ever.
It's sad you find it alienating because youre setting yourself up for a bad life.
Parts of the world are becoming more tolerant. Others a lot less. You obviously live in the former. Enjoy it and don't try to ask for too much too soon.
Be tolerant. Not alienated.

[PeggableFucker]

Also... gender neutral works badly wuth insults. How do you call someone a knobhead or a c**t or a bawbag when gender neutral, eh?

[ey****]

24 minutes ago, PeggableFucker said:

Also... gender neutral works badly wuth insults. How do you call someone a knobhead or a c**t or a bawbag when gender neutral, eh?

all of those insults are gender neutral

[Mi****]

Just bear in mind gender specific terms have always been there, but there's absolutely nothing to say you can't use gender neutral/non-conforming titles, we should be welcoming to our LGBTQ+ friends, I mean there's already plenty of intersectionality as many are part of the community now - Some of the suggestions here are awesome, like Boss, your Grace/Elegance/Majesty, much more creative that what gets defaulted to. You know, I think I need to get more creative with my titles, I need to go brainstorm...

[Mi****]

1 hour ago, PeggableFucker said:

We have 5000 years of gender-biased history. Somehow, we seem to live in a dichotomic world. Good and evil, male female, clever stupid , alive dead etc... Not much we can do about that.
Whether you add or substract categories and labels will change nothing to this fact.
Some languages, such as English, already have a neutral gender. Many others, like French, don't. In English, it's just a question of inventing new words. For others, its more like a total overhaul is needed. It's not going to happen overnight. If ever.
It's sad you find it alienating because youre setting yourself up for a bad life.
Parts of the world are becoming more tolerant. Others a lot less. You obviously live in the former. Enjoy it and don't try to ask for too much too soon.
Be tolerant. Not alienated.

Even in the more understanding places there are people who want to take rights away. Trans Rights in the U.K.? Always under threat. Roe vs Wade in America? Bye-bye! Between that and people getting targeted in mass shootings for being LGBTQ+ I really don't think you can say put it into perspective, when the comparison really isn't that significant in reality, only on paper. And what little was put on paper is now being disregarded in favour of a push back towards 5000 years of gender-biased history. Very reassuring 😅

[gr****]

Seriously the language and protocols are have been long standing. Communication is already one of the most complex part of this kind of lifestyle. Because of the complex dynamics. If you try to change it because it makes you uncomfortable. It will make interacting in a consistent manner impossible

[ey****]

the first recorded use of singular 'they' is 1375

Almost 650 years ago.

Similarly, the first use of the term 'BDSM' was little over 30 years ago.

What we know of BDSM protocol is a bit of a pick and mix in origins but a lot of it actually has very little history.   Preserving something which has very little history to ignore something which has a lot of history is a very weird take. 

[so****]

The generic terms *Dominant* & *submissive* are probably your best bet as of right now 👍but you could always invent new terms for yourself if you like. & the reason in my opinion that BDSM has such gendered language is simply because the whole "non-binary" phenomenon is so brand new that not everything has had ample time to adjust. Give things time to work themselves out. Things such as changes in language & the way people use words takes time. It can't & won't happen overnight. Just be patient & the culture will eventually evolve, I promise 🌼

[gr****]

7 minutes ago, sonofthunder777 said:

The generic terms *Dominant* & *submissive* are probably your best bet as of right now 👍but you could always invent new terms for yourself if you like. & the reason in my opinion that BDSM has such gendered language is simply because the whole "non-binary" phenomenon is so brand new that not everything has had ample time to adjust. Give things time to work themselves out. Things such as changes in language & the way people use words takes time. It can't & won't happen overnight. Just be patient & the culture will eventually evolve, I promise 🌼

Truth is the language is centered on physical sex not this nebulous idea of gender. Which is why a Domme may choose Female or male Subs. Same with a Dom. But the Domme and Dom indicate the sex of the Dominate. So that dynamic negotiation. Is able to happen. This has beed around longer than anyone on here has been alive. Heck it was going on when Jay Wiseman and Lee Harrington. Became part of the scene. Because it is detailed discripted. It is why there is a difference between Dom, Master, Top, Owner and so on. We can add new descriptors. But tearing out the base. Is not acceptable. As communication will be damaged very badly. Heck I have even taught to all female groups. But for this I will stand by my statement. Add but do not assume everyone to change to you.

[ey****]

9 minutes ago, greatimp99 said:

Jay Wiseman

He is a good example in the sense that he has written about his experience and some of the origins - but his stories are basically "I joined a community in 1975 which started in 1976 and a lot has changed and evolved over the years" which ties in to what I've said about very little history and evolving communities and times.

The established protocol - even what we know has a lot of roots in the 90s, rather than the 70s.  A lot changed between those decades, let alone from then to now

[FETMOD-KF]

while there are some interesting and valid points and opinions

could we possibly try to stick to the topic of suggestions on non-gendered titles and language

 

[so****]

I fully agree with much of what has been said here. I just hold my tongue on most topics so I don't accidentally offend anyone 👍🌹 I just give the bare bones minimum of an opinion, then bounce out lol

[Deleted Member]

I’ve found success by googling “gender neutral honorifics”. It is unfortunate that it’s so gendered. There are also terms like daddy that have been redefined to be gender neutral. In that case by the lesbian community. As humans always have, we get to define the meaning of the sounds that come out of our mouths.

[Deleted Member]

10 hours ago, PeggableFucker said:

We have 5000 years of gender-biased history. Somehow, we seem to live in a dichotomic world. Good and evil, male female, clever stupid , alive dead etc... Not much we can do about that.
Whether you add or substract categories and labels will change nothing to this fact.
Some languages, such as English, already have a neutral gender. Many others, like French, don't. In English, it's just a question of inventing new words. For others, its more like a total overhaul is needed. It's not going to happen overnight. If ever.
It's sad you find it alienating because youre setting yourself up for a bad life.
Parts of the world are becoming more tolerant. Others a lot less. You obviously live in the former. Enjoy it and don't try to ask for too much too soon.
Be tolerant. Not alienated.

White colonial culture has had this for maybe 2000 ish years. Don’t equate a small portion of the world to all. Gender neutral is normal in many traditional cultures.

[CopperKnob]

I'm going to take a really different approach to the comments above. Because (very different I know) when it came down to it, I was not happy to use the typical honorifics that 'everyone' uses eg Sir/Daddy (for whatever reason), and so previously I've used one which came about naturally which we were both content with and worked well (to the point that they still use it 🙄).
And here's the thing, whilst language etc can be seen as being 'standard' or 'expected', outside the scope of consent, there is no right way of doing anything within the context of BDSM. It's purely down to what works for you/your dynamic/relationship so feel free to play around with things until you find your comfort zone

And by the way, I totally misread your username as Kinkajou which gave me a bit of a smile. Please don't take offence, they're more than cute

[Deleted Member]

3 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

I'm going to take a really different approach to the comments above. Because (very different I know) when it came down to it, I was not happy to use the typical honorifics that 'everyone' uses eg Sir/Daddy (for whatever reason), and so previously I've used one which came about naturally which we were both content with and worked well (to the point that they still use it 🙄).
And here's the thing, whilst language etc can be seen as being 'standard' or 'expected', outside the scope of consent, there is no right way of doing anything within the context of BDSM. It's purely down to what works for you/your dynamic/relationship so feel free to play around with things until you find your comfort zone

And by the way, I totally misread your username as Kinkajou which gave me a bit of a smile. Please don't take offence, they're more than cute

No offense taken, that's the wordplay I was going for!

I appreciate your perspective, that's what I've done in my past relationships as well. I've also joked about just using "Doctor" as an honorific once I get my PhD 😂

[Deleted Member]

14 hours ago, MisterE1989 said:

Just bear in mind gender specific terms have always been there, but there's absolutely nothing to say you can't use gender neutral/non-conforming titles, we should be welcoming to our LGBTQ+ friends, I mean there's already plenty of intersectionality as many are part of the community now - Some of the suggestions here are awesome, like Boss, your Grace/Elegance/Majesty, much more creative that what gets defaulted to. You know, I think I need to get more creative with my titles, I need to go brainstorm...

A brainstorming session is exactly what I was hoping to encourage! 😁

[Deleted Member]

15 hours ago, PeggableFucker said:

We have 5000 years of gender-biased history. Somehow, we seem to live in a dichotomic world. Good and evil, male female, clever stupid , alive dead etc... Not much we can do about that.
Whether you add or substract categories and labels will change nothing to this fact.
Some languages, such as English, already have a neutral gender. Many others, like French, don't. In English, it's just a question of inventing new words. For others, its more like a total overhaul is needed. It's not going to happen overnight. If ever.
It's sad you find it alienating because youre setting yourself up for a bad life.
Parts of the world are becoming more tolerant. Others a lot less. You obviously live in the former. Enjoy it and don't try to ask for too much too soon.
Be tolerant. Not alienated.

The world isn't as dichotomic as you think! 😁 But let's leave the discussion about grammatical gender and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people worldwide out of this. That is not the point of my post.

I don't think it's asking too much for people to share what kind of gender-neutral honorifics they've used with their partners, do you?

[Deleted Member]

12 hours ago, greatimp99 said:

Truth is the language is centered on physical sex not this nebulous idea of gender. Which is why a Domme may choose Female or male Subs. Same with a Dom. But the Domme and Dom indicate the sex of the Dominate. So that dynamic negotiation. Is able to happen. This has beed around longer than anyone on here has been alive. Heck it was going on when Jay Wiseman and Lee Harrington. Became part of the scene. Because it is detailed discripted. It is why there is a difference between Dom, Master, Top, Owner and so on. We can add new descriptors. But tearing out the base. Is not acceptable. As communication will be damaged very badly. Heck I have even taught to all female groups. But for this I will stand by my statement. Add but do not assume everyone to change to you.

You have such a fascinating perspective. Are we really that scary? 🤣

The existence of LGBTQ+ and their presence in the scene is not some sort of threat to the kink community. There will not be a fundamental breakdown of communication if some queer people use different, more gender-neutral honorifics.

[Mi****]

49 minutes ago, kinkkaiju said:

No offense taken, that's the wordplay I was going for!

I appreciate your perspective, that's what I've done in my past relationships as well. I've also joked about just using "Doctor" as an honorific once I get my PhD 😂

Doctor is another good one! 😄

[Mi****]

40 minutes ago, kinkkaiju said:

A brainstorming session is exactly what I was hoping to encourage! 😁

What about virtues? Things like Patience for the sub, to encourage their humility

[PeggableFucker]

17 hours ago, greatimp99 said:

Truth is the language is centered on physical sex not this nebulous idea of gender. Which is why a Domme may choose Female or male Subs. Same with a Dom. But the Domme and Dom indicate the sex of the Dominate. So that dynamic negotiation. Is able to happen. This has beed around longer than anyone on here has been alive. Heck it was going on when Jay Wiseman and Lee Harrington. Became part of the scene. Because it is detailed discripted. It is why there is a difference between Dom, Master, Top, Owner and so on. We can add new descriptors. But tearing out the base. Is not acceptable. As communication will be damaged very badly. Heck I have even taught to all female groups. But for this I will stand by my statement. Add but do not assume everyone to change to you.

Dominate is a VERB!
The word you were looking for must be Dominant, which either a noun or an adjective.
You welcome.
(and don't you come and tell me it's not important in a dicussion about words, please!)

[Mr****]

I call myself a kinkster. It suits me best 🙂