Dating IS hard. For ALL genders

[CopperKnob]

6 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

years ago - I prompted a post on Fetlife where I invited people; any genders to raise what they felt were men's issues

regardless of if this was "who has it worse overall" but genuine male problems.    

Kinda sifting through some that were actual entitlement and then trying to translate it into it how this was a problem men face was a challenge.

It took a while for me to find it, or it's follow up, as it turns out it wasn't the most loved and while people were happy enough to bring everything they felt was an issue they or men faced, there seemed less interest in the follow up.  If I recall - I posted the follow up on here and again the interaction from men on here was poor.

It certainly feels like men prefer to talk about issues or problems when they're trying to talk over women.  A common complaint about this.  We then get into the weird whataboutisms rather than men actually wanting to sit down and talk about stuff

But then maybe that is the problem also.  That there's a lot of communication issues.

And that kinda... from there... it becomes

"Men have problems"

"Such as"

"We can't get a date"

"Ok, here are some suggestions"
"No suggestion. Only date."
"Err, what?"
"I am a lovely super nice guy who could be an amazing sub/Dom/lover/FWB/husband/boyfriend/whatever if someone just give me a chance"

and it gets so black and white as if the problem is simply "no date" and the solution is "give me a date" and it's just.. ughggggghhhhh

 

you know what would solve all my problems?

£10bn.

Therefore I should be able to moan on any and every thread that I don't have £10bn until somebody just, y'know, gives me £10bn.   

 

So the take home point is; men were given the opportunity to voice what the issues they face are but were either unable to do so, or declined to do so and then, when given some solution focused advice dismissed it and failed to take it on board
Kinda like within this thread? Kinda like on all the other threads where individuals ask what they're doing wrong and we offer advice?

[CopperKnob]

4 hours ago, Mathbro said:

You're confusing in person with online. Online dating acts as a great filter for multiple reasons - I don't dispute men who aren't attractive can be successful in person(though it's harder), I dispute the idea that they are successful over Tinder. Not being physically attractive or having socially desirable traits/status on Tinder is pretty much a death sentence. On other mediums this matters still but perhaps it shifts to more LTR focused qualities(ex, demonstrated stability matters more) but a high bar is still set for men due the quantity of options women have(most aren't real options but the perception is there).  

Along those lines I feel a significant percentage of complaints from women on here amount to "I get the same repetitive boring message and it doesn't turn me on" but this complaint partially exists because of the quantity of messages they receive. If they received at most one message a week they would probably value "hey" a lot more right? Paradox of choice. I will say though having more interactions(though not too many) creates opportunity because it's possible you end up liking the person in a way you didn't prior to the interaction. In this way I would always prefer more messages to fewer even if some of them were shitty(and such interactions can be easily ended).  

 

There's literally research that says less attractive guys rating between 5-8 on a desirability scales do better than those men who score a 10.
And, as I said before, it's not about complaining or boring messages, it's the inappropriate, disgusting, demanding messages which are the issue.
You seem to have a lot to say about a lived experience that well, you haven't actually lived

[CopperKnob]

15 minutes ago, Tiny_ said:

More satire I presume?

It's a fact most women want the top 10% of men, also known as 'Chad'.

Because Chad is a bad boy, he has perfect abs, *** and great looks.

Chad has his pick so never settles down, why would he? Most girls will sleep with him no matter how badly he treats them why? Because he gives them butterflies, and women are addicted to the butterflies.

So if you're happy to share your toys continue to date and choose Chad it is your choice after all.

Just don't keep crying there are no good men out there, you keep choosing Chad.

And the male simps who enable that behaviour when you girls cry about it on social media "oh queen I would never treat you like that you're the best queen, stunning and brave*.

So you get validated when Chad doesn't want you then get right back to chasing Chad soon as you have finished using these poor guys so desperate for female attention they will tell you anything you want to hear in the hopes you will smile at them, because they aren't a Chad.

It's so transparent these days it's really boring seeing the same old stuff on these boards and social media in general.

But copper this surly was a bit of fun right to see what stirred 9n the pot? :-)

Peace love n hugs n shit.

You're absolutely right, the post as I've pointed out countless times waals satire with a serious undertone
And yes, we ALL chase Chad. He's the best, absolutely more desirable than someone who has emotional intelligence, stability within their lives etc etc.
Up to you to decide whether this comment is sarcasm or not

[Straight_Switch]

Got allot of anger coming through this morning Copper? 

 

I have spoken/seen you around these boards for a very long time and even added love n hugs to the end of my post so you know while my reply is factual Im not taking the topic particularly serious and the spirit intended.

 

But you seem on a mission?

 

Also that study that 5-8 rated men do better than 10? Horse shit! lol utter fucking horse shit! hahaha

[CopperKnob]

5 hours ago, Aranhis said:

Oh sweet Jesus... look, I've already got popcorn in (and ice cream, obviously), but can you at least wait until Tuesday please? I've got a week free starting then.

Tuesday evening do you?

[CopperKnob]

5 hours ago, Aranhis said:

Why would there be an issue if she was?

I mean, times are hard, diesel is £202.99 out this way. The additional income would be helpful. I might even learn some makeup tips and get new clothes!

[Vi****]

7 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

Seeing all the comments over the past week from men who feel that they have a rough deal, I think i'll have a go at thinking about things from a guys perspective and maybe come up with solutions. Popcorn should be on everyones shopping list 😂

I despair I really do, I'm getting so cross reading them. I need a break from this site I think 🤔 

[CopperKnob]

16 minutes ago, Tiny_ said:

Got allot of anger coming through this morning Copper? 

 

I have spoken/seen you around these boards for a very long time and even added love n hugs to the end of my post so you know while my reply is factual Im not taking the topic particularly serious and the spirit intended.

 

But you seem on a mission?

 

Also that study that 5-8 rated men do better than 10? Horse shit! lol utter fucking horse shit! hahaha

I appreciate all the loves and hugs, I truly truly do 🙄
I don't really appreciate;
Emotions being attributed to me by others
Individuals telling me my lived experience is not my experience both those that have had quite a different experience
It's generally useful when stating 'facts' to back the statement/s up

[CopperKnob]

11 minutes ago, Vic1077 said:

I despair I really do, I'm getting so cross reading them. I need a break from this site I think 🤔 

I'm still optimistic that this is not an 'all men' issue and that there are men here who have sufficient emotional intelligence amd the ability to say " ok, I hear what you're saying and I understand your perspective" etc. There are certainly a few commenting here but yeah it's starting to get old isn't it

[Straight_Switch]

15 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

I appreciate all the loves and hugs, I truly truly do 🙄
I don't really appreciate;
Emotions being attributed to me by others
Individuals telling me my lived experience is not my experience both those that have had quite a different experience
It's generally useful when stating 'facts' to back the statement/s up

Ok, I challenge you to create a Tinder profile Or bumble or what ever you like as the current dating app.

Create a male profile, average guy say an 7 out of 10? (ok that's above average but you get me?).

 

Report back in 1 week how it went, and you have your facts, be a fun experiment and an eye opener for ya.

Lets us know, and share the whole experience?

Edited July 3, 2022 by Tiny_

[CopperKnob]

2 minutes ago, Tiny_ said:

Ok, I challenge you to create a Tinder profile Or bumble or what ever you like as the current dating app.

Create a male profile, average guy say an 7 out of 10? (ok that's above average but you get me?).

 

Report back in 1 week how it went, and you have your facts, be a fun experiment and an eye opener for ya.

Lets us know, and share the whole experience?

I'm not looking for a vanilla relationship, why would I create a profile on those sites?
We could just use your results surely?
Or, we could just refer back to Eyem's comment above where a contact of his actually did just that

[ge****]

54 minutes ago, Tiny_ said:

Got allot of anger coming through this morning Copper? 

 

I have spoken/seen you around these boards for a very long time and even added love n hugs to the end of my post so you know while my reply is factual Im not taking the topic particularly serious and the spirit intended.

 

But you seem on a mission?

 

Also that study that 5-8 rated men do better than 10? Horse shit! lol utter fucking horse shit! hahaha

I disagree it's "horse shit" whereas your "fact" that men who are a 10 is what women want *is* to be honest.
.
Speaking as a man who would rate in that Mr Average 5-8 range (possibly towards the 5 end of the scale) based on my age, looks etc, I am more than happy with my on-line experiences and have met many people over the past 6 or so years I've been using sites like this and have had some fantastic times - and know many other men similar to me who have done so, whilst I also know many men in their prime who would rate much higher and even as high as a 10 who get nowhere.
.
The difference? I "get" how sites like this work, and use them accordingly - it really is that simple.

[Straight_Switch]

12 minutes ago, gemini_man said:

I disagree it's "horse shit" whereas your "fact" that men who are a 10 is what women want *is* to be honest.
.
Speaking as a man who would rate in that Mr Average 5-8 range (possibly towards the 5 end of the scale) based on my age, looks etc, I am more than happy with my on-line experiences and have met many people over the past 6 or so years I've been using sites like this and have had some fantastic times - and know many other men similar to me who have done so, whilst I also know many men in their prime who would rate much higher and even as high as a 10 who get nowhere.
.
The difference? I "get" how sites like this work, and use them accordingly - it really is that simple.

There will always be exceptions to the rule, however the exception does not make the rule.

It's horse shit, a woman will generally choose a 10 over an 8 rated man, social constructs do not reflect reality and what this thread is or will become is  a social construct.  Sure the thread will reflect the social construct but it really is bullshit.

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, CopperKnob said:

See, there was a thread recently where the question was raised "what do women want?" And a bunch of men responded. And when women said "no, thats not what we want, we're all individuals and we all want different things". A whole bunch of men shouted the women down saying "oh, you silly women, you don't know what you want. We know better than you because we're men"
Whats good for the gander is good for the goose surely?

I can't agree with your rather loose ranging justification given. It is very difficult to read some of your provoking recent posts. There is a common theme of ubiquitous men bashing that I detect. I'm not easily offended either, but perhaps that's the objective to offend, I'm not sure. I don't complain or report such things as I value free speech too much, and believe the best censorship is self censorship. However I'd be surprised if this continual men bashing goes unnoticed by the site admins.

Just a different perspective and take as I see it. I expect another refutefull response. That of course is your privilege and right to do so, however i will likely not reply. I am not going to provide more fuel to the wide spread and sweeping men bashing agenda I am witnessing.

[ge****]

11 minutes ago, Tiny_ said:

There will always be exceptions to the rule, however the exception does not make the rule.

It's horse shit, a woman will generally choose a 10 over an 8 rated man, social constructs do not reflect reality and what this thread is or will become is  a social construct.  Sure the thread will reflect the social construct but it really is bullshit.

No it doesn't make the rule for sure, but when there are numerous exceptions and examples of people that are exceptions, the rule gets more definition.
.
What we can possibly agree on is that of course *anyone* of *any* gender will always choose a 10 over an 8 - but what *defines* that 10 is *not* looks, physique or anything aesthetic but attraction - and attraction comes down to more than looks, it's personality, character, understanding, consideration and a whole heap of other traits that aren't solely physical.

[Vi****]

I tell you what I'd choose forget the 5-8 10 rule. You could be a 10 and an absolute cock I'd never choose you.  I choose the men who are not toxic in there masculinity, the men  who can have a healthy debate without resorting to the "men have it worse" line. I choose the men who aren't always looking to talk over woman and quieten there voice. I choose the men who have a decency about them, a kindness, not those who bleat on about never getting any messages or how this sites full of fakes etc. Well you get the picture. 

[Vi****]

26 minutes ago, Shirt-n-Tie-Boy said:

I can't agree with your rather loose ranging justification given. It is very difficult to read some of your provoking recent posts. There is a common theme of ubiquitous men bashing that I detect. I'm not easily offended either, but perhaps that's the objective to offend, I'm not sure. I don't complain or report such things as I value free speech too much, and believe the best censorship is self censorship. However I'd be surprised if this continual men bashing goes unnoticed by the site admins.

Just a different perspective and take as I see it. I expect another refutefull response. That of course is your privilege and right to do so, however i will likely not reply. I am not going to provide more fuel to the wide spread and sweeping men bashing agenda I am witnessing.

Your doing an excellent job of it yourself on the flip side, this hasn't gone unnoticed either!

[CopperKnob]

3 minutes ago, Vic1077 said:

I tell you what I'd choose forget the 5-8 10 rule. You could be a 10 and an absolute cock I'd never choose you.  I choose the men who are not toxic in there masculinity, the men  who can have a healthy debate without resorting to the "men have it worse" line. I choose the men who aren't always looking to talk over woman and quieten there voice. I choose the men who have a decency about them, a kindness, not those who bleat on about never getting any messages or how this sites full of fakes etc. Well you get the picture. 

Those men are their weight in gold

[Deleted Member]

4 minutes ago, CopperKnob said:

Those men are their weight in gold

Or silver, lots of decent men around and out there with good morals, ethics and personal values. Just because some struggle to find those men does not mean they are a rarity, unicorn or even not in existence. Just needs a little shift in attitude or preconceptions sometimes.

[PJ****]

1 hour ago, gemini_man said:

I disagree it's "horse shit" whereas your "fact" that men who are a 10 is what women want *is* to be honest.
.
Speaking as a man who would rate in that Mr Average 5-8 range (possibly towards the 5 end of the scale) based on my age, looks etc, I am more than happy with my on-line experiences and have met many people over the past 6 or so years I've been using sites like this and have had some fantastic times - and know many other men similar to me who have done so, whilst I also know many men in their prime who would rate much higher and even as high as a 10 who get nowhere.
.
The difference? I "get" how sites like this work, and use them accordingly - it really is that simple.

I gotta say I totally agree with this! I'm much the same, I am not a 10 in any way shape or form (by the way who actually decides this mythical 1-10 scale because I have issues with my current mid range standing... I need to talk to management damnit!! 😂)...

Anyway... I am not particularly good looking, I have my good points and I have my bad, but I do pretty damn well on meeting people for all sorts of fun things.

Sometimes it even all gets a bit much because I've got several people trying to talk to me at once..

..but one thing I very rarely get is abusive, inappropriate, rude or just down right disgusting messages... (unless they're fakey scammers that I've called out 💪). So in general all my interactions are pretty good. I'm pretty sure there are many men in the same position because otherwise quite frankly this whole app/site would just be a bunch of women knocking around wondering where the hell all the horny men went after they got bored with no attention and fucked off 😂😂

I stand by the statement that if you're not getting at least some interaction with people you think you might like to mush your wet'n'squishy bits together with then you're doing something wrong or you're not presenting your best self to the world... or both 🤷‍♂️

Yes if you're ultra good looking you'll get more chances, but that doesn't equate to a sure thing... if you're great looking with a great personality then sure you might be covered in your preferred genders bodily fluids at all times of the day... but if you're a dickhead then probably not so much...unless you're talking just one night stands maybe but then most women here don't seem too down for just that (from what i see - ladies do correct me if I'm wrong 😉)

That being said, some of my success might be because I have ice-cream, lots and lots of ice-cream... and cupcakes.. and bacon.. and all women love all of those things so they all do what I say in order to acquire my luscious offerings!!

[ge****]

8 minutes ago, Shirt-n-Tie-Boy said:

Or silver, lots of decent men around and out there with good morals, ethics and personal values. Just because some struggle to find those men does not mean they are a rarity, unicorn or even not in existence. Just needs a little shift in attitude or preconceptions sometimes.

You got that right - a shift in attitude, preconceptions and expectations on the part of a lot of men wouldn't go amiss.
.
Having been around sites like this for a long time invariably those men that bemoan their "luck" etc are the ones whose attitudes, expectations and preconceptions are set wrong, the guys that get it generally do well - and that's not man bashing, but observation based on many years experience.
.
The ladies moans tend to be about the quality of interaction they get, and invariably is comes down to the incorrectly set attitudes, expectations and preconceptions of many of the men that contact them, many of whom are rude and abusive - not anything else...again not man bashing but observations based on their own experiences.

[Vi****]

37 minutes ago, PJ3000 said:

I gotta say I totally agree with this! I'm much the same, I am not a 10 in any way shape or form (by the way who actually decides this mythical 1-10 scale because I have issues with my current mid range standing... I need to talk to management damnit!! 😂)...

Anyway... I am not particularly good looking, I have my good points and I have my bad, but I do pretty damn well on meeting people for all sorts of fun things.

Sometimes it even all gets a bit much because I've got several people trying to talk to me at once..

..but one thing I very rarely get is abusive, inappropriate, rude or just down right disgusting messages... (unless they're fakey scammers that I've called out 💪). So in general all my interactions are pretty good. I'm pretty sure there are many men in the same position because otherwise quite frankly this whole app/site would just be a bunch of women knocking around wondering where the hell all the horny men went after they got bored with no attention and fucked off 😂😂

I stand by the statement that if you're not getting at least some interaction with people you think you might like to mush your wet'n'squishy bits together with then you're doing something wrong or you're not presenting your best self to the world... or both 🤷‍♂️

Yes if you're ultra good looking you'll get more chances, but that doesn't equate to a sure thing... if you're great looking with a great personality then sure you might be covered in your preferred genders bodily fluids at all times of the day... but if you're a dickhead then probably not so much...unless you're talking just one night stands maybe but then most women here don't seem too down for just that (from what i see - ladies do correct me if I'm wrong 😉)

That being said, some of my success might be because I have ice-cream, lots and lots of ice-cream... and cupcakes.. and bacon.. and all women love all of those things so they all do what I say in order to acquire my luscious offerings!!
 

"Mush your wet&squishy bits" lol love it 😆 I might use this an a message opener what do you think 🤔

Oh and now your just trying to tempt us with your sweet offerings I see. (Good ploy) 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Vic1077
Spelling ad ons

[PJ****]

5 minutes ago, Vic1077 said:

"Mush your wet&squishy bits" lol love it 😆 I might use this an a message opener what do you think 🤔

Oh and now your just trying to tempt us with your sweet offerings I see. (Good ploy) 

Seriously it's the secret to my success 😂 come and sample my sweet mouth watering treats my prettys (que evil cackle).

And feel free to use that, its my go to chat up line.. "hey babe... wanna mush your squish up against me?".. works every time 😂 although I do now have a soggy leg 🤔

[ey****]

3 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

So the take home point is; men were given the opportunity to voice what the issues they face are but were either unable to do so, or declined to do so and then, when given some solution focused advice dismissed it and failed to take it on board
Kinda like within this thread? Kinda like on all the other threads where individuals ask what they're doing wrong and we offer advice?

on the initial post there were a lot of suggestions - and - I think there were a lot of good points.  Even some that were a bit "yeah... but..." I could kinda see

Even some of the myths or things which were out of context ("Men are more likely to die in war" always comes up - but that's because the rules forbidding women to be drafted were made by men.) there was elements I could see on communication.

So me.  I know I chat a lot of shit, but there's a lot of struggles that I go through.  Some are a 'me' thing and exclusive to my circumstances.  Some I feel are common to what other men also go through.

For example - always feeling like we have to make the first move or prompt for meets or something is exhausting.  

But also, there was something another guy said on another thread which suggested that women had prompted him for play and he didn't actually really know how to say no.  Because it's not something he'd had to do. And it then ended up in a situation of doing play he didn't really enjoy because either he didn't know how to say no, or because it felt a bit "at least I'm getting play" 

And also again.  I mentioned on another thread I have quite a good 'response rate' but this is partially as I very rarely actually go "Fuck it, I'm going to message them" and this isn't that there aren't other people who have interested me over the time but, perhaps, I haven't felt like I'm what they're looking for or that I found the concept at the time of trying to make a conversation and a good impression to be exhausting at the point.

But then, sometimes, they message me! And that seems great, and I'm really happy they have, it's usually "Hey, you wrote something cool, thank you" or "I wanted to ask about something you said" and that's wonderful but then I end up questioning myself, with someone in my inbox I'm conversing with right at the time, what is or isn't appropriate to say

And when you do message someone... I know it's all about making it brief and making it count, cos, largely that has worked - but, err, how... why does something I've done before seem so difficult - like there's this extra pressure to make a message that will stand out in a good way.

Also of course, consider a lot of the people I do meet is, effectively, 'for work' - and I'm sure of course plenty of folk also enjoy time with me - but there's often a bit.... 'is this just work?', 'are we friends?', 'has this potential to be anything more?' 'will asking those questions end up stopping us meeting in other ways?', 'are other people put off by this in general thinking I will want to pressure them into filming?', 'Do other people compare themselves to people I've filmed with and think that I always have better options?'

And so much is a headfuck 

I also say this as someone who has lost friendships when saying "hey, you wanna be more than friends?" (one who said 'no' and things became awkward and another who said 'yes' and we ended up with a short term relationship which was good for neither of us and largely ended that friendship also - obviously in these examples the other people involved had perspectives which was also bad for them)

Anyway.... I'm fucking rambling here.

The thing is as well in most things I've said above there is no real simple solution.  

But yep; this was just it - the follow up posts like I say - not really so much traction or people even wanting to talk about issues they had - and perhaps that's also a men's problem - not knowing how to communicate feelings at times so it comes out either as a "someone give me a chance" kinda entitlement or "you're all fakes and scammers" or "look, look, it's not me - science says men have it harder" (ignoring of course that the people the women are dating and matching with are in fact men and not penguins) 

 

 

 

[ey****]

3 hours ago, Tiny_ said:

Ok, I challenge you to create a Tinder profile Or bumble or what ever you like as the current dating app.

Create a male profile, average guy say an 7 out of 10? (ok that's above average but you get me?).

Report back in 1 week how it went, and you have your facts, be a fun experiment and an eye opener for ya.

Lets us know, and share the whole experience?

I'm going to tell you a bunch of reasons why I think this is a problem

Firstly - this whole 'experiment' has been done to death and rarely with any form of metrics

You're also adding a fake/catfish to the pool

One week isn't really any form of gauge - but perhaps this is a problem in itself that a lot of men join dating apps and expect immediate results.  Now, especially when it comes to fetish sites this is a massive red flag because it just comes over as someone who has steamrollered in with little understanding, messaging all of the women and hoping to get his dick wet.    

Perhaps in itself that can be another problem that joining a new site it would be seen as bad form to start messaging people immediately - but, in itself - it's not enough.

I did see a good post from a lady a while ago who was talking about how inaccurate a lot of social experiments were.  The other common one of course is for men posing as women (so, adding to the fakes and catfish) to prove women didn't really have it so bad and then either be shocked within a week or so or not depending on the site/data/etc.

Anyway in her post what she suggested guys doing this 'experiment' did was to stick at it for 2 or 3 months.  And also in that time to act how they felt women should behave - that is - replying to every message no matter how dull or trivial.  That a "Hey" has to be replied with a "hey" and he has to respond to any small talk hell the other person tries to go through.  If someone propositions then he has to reply, a 'no thanks' would suffice but he has to do this to see how often this is then responded to with any form of ***, or "But y tho" - that every picture message has to be opened.  

And, yeah, guys usually find a week is too long going through this.