Can a punishment be a reward? 24/7 confusion

[Vo****]

A recent vetting/ negotiation ended very abruptly with no feedback so I’m hoping for general opinions on a 24/7 dynamic, particularly whether I am just plain wrong. The guy mentioned that he may withhold pain as a punishment…. Which didn’t sit right with me because I need things to be black & white. You can’t say pain is a punishment most of the time but then randomly decide it’s actually a reward and thus withhold it as a punishment..? It can’t be both?
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I should say I was extremely upfront about the fact that I was looking for a 24/7 dynamic, and I was very clear about the fact that I need pain to be increased into CNC territory. He said he wanted 24/7 and also said many times that the punishments would be genuine punishments. I took this to mean that he understood what I meant. So I obviously had to question why he then said that he might withhold punishments as a punishment because I might be enjoying it? I pointed out in much more tactful language that if I’m enjoying it then it’s not a punishment and you’d be doing it wrong. I am turned on by things that i don’t enjoy (within reason, there’s obviously a point at which things are too much).
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But I was completely ghosted for saying this so I’m wondering if people think I sound crazy or if saying what I’ve said would be a red flag??

[Lucalus]

It’s in a complicated territory, which is different from person to person. their is absolutely no cause for you to be ghosted for defining your desires.

[Jaygottabiggdic]

I think your not crazy that the guy might have just took it the wrong way

[As****]

I don’t think your wrong I think there was a disconnect in comprehension on his end while you communicated your needs and concern. & if he’s ghosting you cause he LACKS communication he doesn’t deserve your pleasure anyways. Fuck him.

[Jed]

Not crazy at all, 🚩

[As****]

for some people pain IS pleasure and they thoroughly enjoy it. Taking it away may feel like a punishment because they eagerly crave that.

[Ol****]

Funishments Vs punishments…
If the normal punishments are fun the should be part of agreed needs… But punishments may have to be more creative or personal…
Had a sub that enjoyed being beaten… so her punishment was to look at herself in the mirror and list physical attributes about herself she liked… She hated it.

[ey****]

the whole concept of punishments is one that gets really hazy

but...

in some dynamics there's an agreed punishment that is triggered in whatever circumstances.   This is clear, it's black and white "if you do (or don't do) this then I will do this" simple

however, if the desired result is, say, being hurt - then triggering the punishment is in the subs best interest.  They get what they want.

Some Dominants get hung up on the idea punishments have to be genuine. Else they're not really a punishment, they're what the sub wants.  Therefore if your desired result is pain, then a punishment would be to withhold the pain.  

Still. There is the line the other way where some Dominants hide behind the concept of "it's punishment" to administer beatings or violent conduct above what the sub is comfortable with ("it's not abuse it's CNC!!! it's a punishment!!!") and so that is also another facet of how hazy things get.   

In essence, really, stuff like punishments should be almost towards the end of negotiations, not the start.  It's something to build to where you know everyone is in overall agreement. Not somewhere to start from. 

[Dy****]

How long did this dynamic exist for?

[Deleted Member]

Seems to me your a masochist who needs to be treated a certain way, to experience pain (CNC style) to achieve pleasure & not just a sub who enjoys breaking rules to get spanked because they enjoy that discipline roleplay & pain, so in essence to them, that punishment, is in fact a reward, as it gives them pleasure. Therefore you need a more sadistic dom, who doesn't need rule breaking excuses to punish, discipline & instil pain, a dom who can share in CNC/sadomasochist experiences with you with no more motivation or reason than it gives you both pleasure.

[Be****]

It maybe that the person involved was looking for something 'easy' and hadn't considered that these are personal nuanced things that need to be negotiated. You're looking for a particular dynamic/relationship that's going to need to go deep to work, you may just have gone past their capacity?

[Cheekysub247]

This is different for everyone so i believe wires got crossed here, but he should have stuck around and asked more questions rather than just 'she dont get it' and go..
Pain can be pleasure, a punishment and/or both. I enjoy moderate pain, certain types, Harder and different kinds would be genuine punishment. A gentle flogging isnt a punishment its impact play, a harder uncomfortable flogging is a punishment. Communication establish the difference between them.

[Vo****]

18 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

the whole concept of punishments is one that gets really hazy

but...

in some dynamics there's an agreed punishment that is triggered in whatever circumstances.   This is clear, it's black and white "if you do (or don't do) this then I will do this" simple

however, if the desired result is, say, being hurt - then triggering the punishment is in the subs best interest.  They get what they want.

Some Dominants get hung up on the idea punishments have to be genuine. Else they're not really a punishment, they're what the sub wants.  Therefore if your desired result is pain, then a punishment would be to withhold the pain.  

Still. There is the line the other way where some Dominants hide behind the concept of "it's punishment" to administer beatings or violent conduct above what the sub is comfortable with ("it's not abuse it's CNC!!! it's a punishment!!!") and so that is also another facet of how hazy things get.   

In essence, really, stuff like punishments should be almost towards the end of negotiations, not the start.  It's something to build to where you know everyone is in overall agreement. Not somewhere to start from. 

Yes I agree it’s hazy because obviously I’m seeking this because it’s what I want and it’s pretty much the only thing that turns me on.. I’m aware it’s the middle ground of cnc that I want, a pain level that I’m really struggling with but not something completely mental. And it’s only cnc if you’re fully onboard with a high level of trust that the Dom isn’t going to take it too far..

[Vo****]

13 minutes ago, DyingForLife said:

How long did this dynamic exist for?

Not long at all, we’d only met once

[Vo****]

12 minutes ago, BrumDomSir said:

Seems to me your a masochist who needs to be treated a certain way, to experience pain (CNC style) to achieve pleasure & not just a sub who enjoys breaking rules to get spanked because they enjoy that discipline roleplay & pain, so in essence to them, that punishment, is in fact a reward, as it gives them pleasure. Therefore you need a more sadistic dom, who doesn't need rule breaking excuses to punish, discipline & instil pain, a dom who can share in CNC/sadomasochist experiences with you with no more motivation or reason than it gives you both pleasure.

Yes I kept saying I’m not a sub who wants to role play being punished.. that doesn’t work for me. Which is why I found his reaction so strange! I’m obviously going to be a bit too extreme for many people but he seemed fully onboard til I said you can’t randomly decide punishments are rewards? It made me question if I sound crazy. But cnc is a thing, maybe he just didn’t understand the concept.

[Deleted Member]

1 minute ago, VoodooGirl said:

Yes I kept saying I’m not a sub who wants to role play being punished.. that doesn’t work for me. Which is why I found his reaction so strange! I’m obviously going to be a bit too extreme for many people but he seemed fully onboard til I said you can’t randomly decide punishments are rewards? It made me question if I sound crazy. But cnc is a thing, maybe he just didn’t understand the concept.

Some simply don't fully understand, what is really required but as long as you know, that's all that counts & you just have to weed your way through those that don't get it, as with any kink or fetish, to find the ones who do

[Vo****]

18 minutes ago, Cheekysub247 said:

This is different for everyone so i believe wires got crossed here, but he should have stuck around and asked more questions rather than just 'she dont get it' and go..
Pain can be pleasure, a punishment and/or both. I enjoy moderate pain, certain types, Harder and different kinds would be genuine punishment. A gentle flogging isnt a punishment its impact play, a harder uncomfortable flogging is a punishment. Communication establish the difference between them.

Yes absolutely, i thought I was just communicating my needs in all honesty… I’m always very upfront that I want cnc in those particular activities. It just gave me a wobble that maybe I sound like a nutcase!

[Gundu]

So, my thoughts on this is like so: you want pain. But denying it so you have to wait for the actual punishment is mental pain. So, it’s kind of a punishment because you’re not getting what you want. It’s not a traditional punishment, but a form of it, imo.

[Ha****]

I assume for the sake of convenience that you are maso. It is generally known that masos enjoy/like pain. Knowing this, why would a Master punish a maso with pain when that is really rewarding inappropriate behavior.

[Vo****]

On a side note; could anyone (or an admin) explain where on the forum this post is located? I can only access Kink Academy through the forum tab and it’s not showing up there. It’s also not been added to my wall like my other posts? I can only access it through notifications and it says it’s located on Bdsm Forum? It obviously exists somewhere as people are commenting..

[littlemiss37]

Vodoogirl u r within ur rights. That's funishment not punishment x

[Gundu]

1 minute ago, VoodooGirl said:

On a side note; could anyone (or an admin) explain where on the forum this post is located? I can only access Kink Academy through the forum tab and it’s not showing up there. It’s also not been added to my wall like my other posts? I can only access it through notifications and it says it’s located on Bdsm Forum? It obviously exists somewhere as people are commenting..

I see it in my scrolling wall.

[Gundu]

6 minutes ago, Gundu said:

So, my thoughts on this is like so: you want pain. But denying it so you have to wait for the actual punishment is mental pain. So, it’s kind of a punishment because you’re not getting what you want. It’s not a traditional punishment, but a form of it, imo.

Also, to add, I don’t think it’s right for him to ghost you. But we don’t know the reason for the ghosting, so can’t blame him.

[Vo****]

7 minutes ago, Gundu said:

So, my thoughts on this is like so: you want pain. But denying it so you have to wait for the actual punishment is mental pain. So, it’s kind of a punishment because you’re not getting what you want. It’s not a traditional punishment, but a form of it, imo.

I understand what you’re saying but he was not suggesting I’d have to wait for it but that it would be completely withheld because I was enjoying it. All I tried to say was that in my case I need it to be at a level that i don’t enjoy. It just made me worry that I sound like a super extreme crazy person..

[Sp****]

Spiral’s BDSM 101 - Context defines if pain is a reward or punishment.