Difference between a bottom and a submissive

[De****]

There is some nuance here. I’m finding it increasingly difficult to successful screen for men who are (or choose) submission versus those who are just bottoms.

I don’t know if this is a factor of meeting men online but when l talk about power exchange, I’m interested in d/s that’s built on trust, care, commitment and using their masculinity(I don’t like passive men) in service of men.

Yet I seem to meet men who tell me they are submissive, or want to be led in a dynamic and then basically revert to a type of steering the relationship to exclusively get what they want. Which is basically for the sexual and fantasy needs to be met.

What am I doing wrong??

[FETMOD-TF]

This topic has been approved for advice purposes only. Please refrain from propositions and asking the OP to dm you as the comments will be removed and warnings applied.  Thank you 

[BacknBoise]

I think it’s natural for people to try steer the conversation to see if they can get what they want, that’s why we’re all here.
And nobody wants to waste their time

i do think some are here for the quick fix so to speak and not really interested and what it takes to build a strong dynamic, or relationship

That being said, I think both parties needs must be met if it is to be successful

I also think if people are always trying to steer the conversation, they’re probably not right for you because they’re not what you’re looking for

[Ze****]

Yes, fantasy switches.

[ke****]

It was explained to me early and I watch for topping from the bottom behaviour one my responsibilities is to say I'm feeling super needy that requires her to keep an eye on me and correct me if I stray off the the correct path it doesn't require her to become my kink dispenser and I have been successfully in (I hope ) mostly curbing this behaviour and understanding the path I choose i hope I haven't been in a 24/7 dynamic in a while now

[tinytc]

This is a fascinating topic worth thinking deeply about. What are we here for and why.

[Shilo66]

I read your profile, and I like your last update, albeit from six months ago, and your profile in general, as well as how you answered the questions.
So, what I'm about to state, is only my opinion on how I think you could make things better in your quest mentioned here:

1) Update your profile to clearly state that you are wanting a female lead relationship. At the moment, it reads as if you're still looking for a Dom... Remember, as men we want and need messages to be really clear.

2) You're not actually doing anything wrong. You just need to make your message clearer, AND once done, you'll just need to be patient. It may take a little while, but the wait will be worth it once you find him.
I like the fact that you identified that there was something not quite working right in your search and you sought to rectify it... rather than going down the path of the women who can't take any accountability for their decisions, who just start blaming all men for the fact they (the women) can't make good decisions... and are too consumed with hubris to simply ask, "where am I going wrong here?"

3) What some of my female friends do to quickly filter down to the type of guy they want, is to put at the end of their profiles a "Check You"... or at least that's what I call it.
This is where, they'll say something along the lines of, 'if you want to reply to me and prove that you've read my profile, please state in your opening sentence my favourite colour... or in your case, hobby... which is golf, or watching action movies, or being cuddled... you know, something like that.

Then, if they get responses from guys who don't follow this request, they simply delete or block that enquiry, and focus on the guys who did. This way, they know they'll be chatting to guys who actually read their profiles, and crucially, understand what it is that they're looking for in a guy and dynamic.

Hope this helps.

Oh, and if you're wondering why a Dom is replying, it's because your enquiry came up in my general feed and 'caught my eye'.

Edited 14 hours ago by Shilo66

[De****]

*That should say in service of me, not men btw!

[De****]

52 minutes ago, keon-park18505 said:

It was explained to me early and I watch for topping from the bottom behaviour one my responsibilities is to say I'm feeling super needy that requires her to keep an eye on me and correct me if I stray off the the correct path it doesn't require her to become my kink dispenser and I have been successfully in (I hope ) mostly curbing this behaviour and understanding the path I choose i hope I haven't been in a 24/7 dynamic in a while now

I love this because it acknowledges some maybe default tendencies and your awareness of it as something to be corrected can make the difference. I hope you are not putting all the onus on your Domme though :)

[De****]

56 minutes ago, Zenju said:

Yes, fantasy switches.

Sigh

[De****]

1 hour ago, BacknBoise said:

I think it’s natural for people to try steer the conversation to see if they can get what they want, that’s why we’re all here.
And nobody wants to waste their time

i do think some are here for the quick fix so to speak and not really interested and what it takes to build a strong dynamic, or relationship

That being said, I think both parties needs must be met if it is to be successful

I also think if people are always trying to steer the conversation, they’re probably not right for you because they’re not what you’re looking for

I still maintain there is a difference between a bottom and a submissive. I hear what you are saying but there is nuance missing l feel.

[sp****]

You are right. There is a difference between sub and bottom. I think the majority of men probably do not know that and have not understood the feelings that they have. This is leading to a lot of confusion and frustration.

[pi****]

Idk im a switch, but im not gonna switch or steer unless discussed you want that. I stick to my lane.

[De****]

6 minutes ago, sporkmam1984 said:

You are right. There is a difference between sub and bottom. I think the majority of men probably do not know that and have not understood the feelings that they have. This is leading to a lot of confusion and frustration.

Yeah I wonder about that. If you take d/s seriously there is a lot of inner work that has to happen I think, particularly as a domme and that comes from knowing yourself intimately. I wonder if some men who call to be submissive focus primarily on the sexual aspect of what turns them on, rather than thinking holistically about what is it about submission that not only appeals to them but they actually understand what to submit means in practice.

[Dr****]

Seems like you are looking for switch that wants to submit and be led. The switch person normally has more passion and drive then a total submissive.
It is very hard to screen people most of the time you got to build some sort of relationship to get a feel for them over time. Even when taming ***s you always have limits or oddities to every one. Then add people's ability to lie or pretend makes it even harder sometimes. It could them lieing or pretending to themselves for their wants. They might actually feel submissive one day but another they want to be more independent. I would say most people go through cycles. Takes a strong connection to know someone so you have a good feel for them.

[ke****]

55 minutes ago, DevotionWhenClaimed said:

I love this because it acknowledges some maybe default tendencies and your awareness of it as something to be corrected can make the difference. I hope you are not putting all the onus on your Domme though :)

I am a work in progress anyone who wants to be able to make something work has to be willing to work I was a rugby league playing rough guy my ex-wife was worried I set a example of patriarchal relationship to her kids so took the initiative and being a learning experience from the start my adventures into submission learning and improving the quality of the dynamic was a fun part and I never lost my will to understand the situation i enjoyed so much from the first time and provide a more enjoyable situation to my ma'am and as I do that a more enjoyable situation for myself

[ke****]

4 minutes ago, keon-park18505 said:

I am a work in progress anyone who wants to be able to make something work has to be willing to work I was a rugby league playing rough guy my ex-wife was worried I set a example of patriarchal relationship to her kids so took the initiative and being a learning experience from the start my adventures into submission learning and improving the quality of the dynamic was a fun part and I never lost my will to understand the situation i enjoyed so much from the first time and provide a more enjoyable situation to my ma'am and as I do that a more enjoyable situation for myself

If I don't make the corrections then I am clearly robbing myself and partner of the best dynamic I would hope that everyone is constantly thinking about their responsibility to make the situation enjoyable to everyone

[StrangerG]

Ahh targeted content

[De****]

2 hours ago, Shilo66 said:

I read your profile, and I like your last update, albeit from six months ago, and your profile in general, as well as how you answered the questions.
So, what I'm about to state, is only my opinion on how I think you could make things better in your quest mentioned here:

1) Update your profile to clearly state that you are wanting a female lead relationship. At the moment, it reads as if you're still looking for a Dom... Remember, as men we want and need messages to be really clear.

2) You're not actually doing anything wrong. You just need to make your message clearer, AND once done, you'll just need to be patient. It may take a little while, but the wait will be worth it once you find him.
I like the fact that you identified that there was something not quite working right in your search and you sought to rectify it... rather than going down the path of the women who can't take any accountability for their decisions, who just start blaming all men for the fact they (the women) can't make good decisions... and are too consumed with hubris to simply ask, "where am I going wrong here?"

3) What some of my female friends do to quickly filter down to the type of guy they want, is to put at the end of their profiles a "Check You"... or at least that's what I call it.
This is where, they'll say something along the lines of, 'if you want to reply to me and prove that you've read my profile, please state in your opening sentence my favourite colour... or in your case, hobby... which is golf, or watching action movies, or being cuddled... you know, something like that.

Then, if they get responses from guys who don't follow this request, they simply delete or block that enquiry, and focus on the guys who did. This way, they know they'll be chatting to guys who actually read their profiles, and crucially, understand what it is that they're looking for in a guy and dynamic.

Hope this helps.

Oh, and if you're wondering why a Dom is replying, it's because your enquiry came up in my general feed and 'caught my eye'.

Thank you and I’m grateful for your comments irrespective of your “role”. You make some valid points and I think l can be very reactive to my experiences and so my profile oscillates dependent on my mood. Sometimes I give my profile a lot of thought and then blatantly attract people who can’t/wont read.

So then I do a half arsed attempt. Delete the app for months on end and then come back. I’m very careful about not being too heavy on me being a domme on here because no matter I write I predominately attract bottoms. And that’s nothing wrong with that but I’m not interested in being the vessel for someone’s kinks or vice versa.

Much for me to mull over, thanks Sir

[Po****]

I actually love this because it made me think a few things over. I prefer doms, but I used to hook up with one guy who described himself as submissive-but he wasn’t very submissive considering he only wanted the things he wanted and was quite the selfish lover. Actually had a debate with him over using toys in the bedroom cause he had some very ill pre-conceited notions about them and it made me wonder how as a submissive ur not into doing what it takes to get me off.

Anyways i went on a side tangent- I do believe a lot of of the people on here aren’t even really looking for kink and just want “freaky sex”. That’s why one of my favorite questions to ask if what they are into. If they cant give me or name a couple of dynamics or things they like and just go with “ well I like everything” and refuse to elaborate, its an instant block for me. That just means they’re a yes, man. They are going to put all the emotional and physical labor on me. Also men who ignore the clear boundaries on my profile. (No long diistance & not interested in penpals), another instant block.

[ey****]

the kinda reality is - that as much as men might argue otherwise online, very few who profess to be submissive online, actually are.  

Some might have the potential to be.  Sure.  But right now in majority of cases no matter how they dress it up, the interest is in acting out ther fetishes/fantasies. Mind, many would argue they'd wish for it to be mutually beneficial.

Perhaps of those who may be closer to being submissive.  They are still going to want to ensure compability.  This also doesn't excuse blatant inappropriateness, sure.  But then also, some are going to ask themselves, do I feel I would want to submit to this person?

A big truth is that FLR is an endgoal, not a starting position. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of trial and error, in order to move from a new relationship to a FLR.  There are men who at the beginning of this journey may have their own struggles and take time to fit into the mould you want.

So, finding the perfect finished-product sub is going to be very difficult. So it may be a case of finding someone you feel has the potential and who you'd like to work together with on.  Of course, it might be that it takes time to find someone who has that potential. Patience is an important tool. 

[0P****]

For me I may have the wrong end of the stick so feel free to let me know.
A bottom to me is just someone who likes to receive instead of give. Ie prefers to receive anal instead of give it etc. But in the relationship itself they are on the same level.
A submissive is someone who prefers to have a person over them, instructions on what to do, behaviour, removal of choice (in within limitations set) etc that is built through trust but in the relationship one is higher than the other
Then I think there is the 3rd kind as some who have said where it's someone who is just selfishly looking for encounters and they are not really bothered by the other person or the relationship just to get what they want out of it then kind of dump and run but to get that they say they are a submissive and manipulate people to give what they want.

Again sorry I struggle to put thoughts into text

[De****]

No Sir, it’s recognising a pattern.

Edited 11 hours ago by DevotionWhenClaimed

[De****]

18 minutes ago, PoisonTonic said:

I actually love this because it made me think a few things over. I prefer doms, but I used to hook up with one guy who described himself as submissive-but he wasn’t very submissive considering he only wanted the things he wanted and was quite the selfish lover. Actually had a debate with him over using toys in the bedroom cause he had some very ill pre-conceited notions about them and it made me wonder how as a submissive ur not into doing what it takes to get me off.

Anyways i went on a side tangent- I do believe a lot of of the people on here aren’t even really looking for kink and just want “freaky sex”. That’s why one of my favorite questions to ask if what they are into. If they cant give me or name a couple of dynamics or things they like and just go with “ well I like everything” and refuse to elaborate, its an instant block for me. That just means they’re a yes, man. They are going to put all the emotional and physical labor on me. Also men who ignore the clear boundaries on my profile. (No long diistance & not interested in penpals), another instant block.

Yes the inability to be specific about preferences and likes (for someone who identifies as a submissive) is telling. Equally someone who rattles off their long list and asks targeted questions about kinks between we ever know each others names is also a red flag (for me).

It’s the Wild West yet still l live in hope.
Thanks for commenting

[De****]

14 minutes ago, eyemblacksheep said:

the kinda reality is - that as much as men might argue otherwise online, very few who profess to be submissive online, actually are.  

Some might have the potential to be.  Sure.  But right now in majority of cases no matter how they dress it up, the interest is in acting out ther fetishes/fantasies. Mind, many would argue they'd wish for it to be mutually beneficial.

Perhaps of those who may be closer to being submissive.  They are still going to want to ensure compability.  This also doesn't excuse blatant inappropriateness, sure.  But then also, some are going to ask themselves, do I feel I would want to submit to this person?

A big truth is that FLR is an endgoal, not a starting position. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of trial and error, in order to move from a new relationship to a FLR.  There are men who at the beginning of this journey may have their own struggles and take time to fit into the mould you want.

So, finding the perfect finished-product sub is going to be very difficult. So it may be a case of finding someone you feel has the potential and who you'd like to work together with on.  Of course, it might be that it takes time to find someone who has that potential. Patience is an important tool. 

For sure and you’ve got to the crux of it - as hard as it is for one’s ego, it could also be the man is submissive (or whatever) but doesn’t feel that or wants to commit to anything deeper in relation to me. And often it can be no more complicated than that.

Appreciate your perspective.