The 'Gift' Of Submission? What About The 'Gift' of Dominance?

[CopperKnob]

How often do we see submission described as a gift? That word, "gift" comes across as being quite lovely l, fantasy driven maybe? I have considered whether it matches what I offer, but try as I might, I cannot agree with this verbiage.

Submission, for me, is not a gift.

Is it a treasure? Possibly

Something of value? Definitely

An act? (as in behaviour) Absolutely

But a gift?

It doesn't strike me as true. Submission is not an object, its not a present wrapped up in a pretty bow ready to be given to someone. To say it's a gift implies that after the gifting is over no work is left to be done?

When I offer my submission, it's because someone has shown me they are worthy. And I can only assume that they are offering their Dominance because they feel I am worthy of it. I didn't just hand it over without them offering something in return. It was an exchange - submission for Dominance. And to be truthful, I don't want a man that is wanting or expecting a 'gift'. I want a man that shows me his best to inspire me to devote myself to him and wills it from me.

We speak so much about the 'gift' of submission that it seems we rarely have time to consider the 'gift' of Dominance. Maybe we’re so focused on what we subs give, that we fail to notice what we receive? Whatever our reasons, it’s about time we started acknowledging that a submissives so-called 'gift' isn't as unique as we make out. We receive just as much as we give.

I imagine that our ethical Dom's do enough mental gymnastics to win an Olympian medal, but we take that as a given. As expected. As called for.

If I were to top, I’d have to learn a whole new level of self-knowledge, develop some topnotch reflection skills and achieve enough mindfulness to be able to switch from sadistic to supportive in under a second. Worst of all, I’d have to gaze into my own abyss.

And you know what happens when you do that: The abyss gazes right back into you. Could I face my own inner monster without becoming it? I’m not so sure. That’s why the idea of topping terrifies me.

I'd rather give all my TB dresses, icecream and Haribo away!

I’m baffled by Doms. I’m profoundly grateful for your willingness to tie me up and spank me etc. (Thank you. Have some icecream. OK, that's enough) but, I don’t know how you find it in yourselves to hurt, albeit consenting, subjects. The idea of it terrifies me. What if I went too far? How would I cope with the guilt when the tears started falling? When would I cross the bridge between Evil Me and Gentle Me? Would I ever find my way back or do they nuke the bridge as soon as you reach the other side?

What if I discovered that I was more Ted Bundy than E Edward Grey?

When we say submission is a gift and Dominance is not, we're saying that your Dom can face his own abyss and return with hugs, blankets and icecream in tow and so what? Isn’t that something we’re entitled to?

Of course, we all deserve to be treated with compassion etc, but that doesn’t explain why we rarely acknowledge the self-knowledge and courage required to Dom someone. That’s to say nothing of the vulnerability Doms display when they  unpack all their scariest kinks out on a shelf for us to see. But hey, we prefer that fairytale Dom right? We prefer to think of them as James Bondesque humanoids made entirely of marine grade carbon steel?

Domming is easy. Its submission thats hard.

On some level, I can see why some choose to use the word 'gift' It has a certain ring to it. But I think many may use it without critically thinking about the actual meaning of the word and analysing if the word "gift" accurately describes what they are offering to the upper side of the slash.

However, if you are a sub and have spent some time considering what the word really means and if you still believe it to be a gift, then let's agree that we have very different definitions of what submission is. But, maybe we could agree that if this is the case, that submission is a gift, then Dominance is a gift too and maybe that needs to be on every blinking meme on insta!

For me, there are two main factors which mean I can't see my submission as a gift:

1. A gift isn't something you take back but I'm sure as hell that I can revoke my submission any damn time I want

2. Submission earns Dominance which earns submission which earns Dominance. Its an exchange, a flow of power, back and forwards.

Perhaps self control, empathy and informed consent are the real 'gifts' we should be talking about?

[Deleted Member]

This is the first time, in a VERY long time, that I have seen a lady acknowledge that what we bring  to the table is a gift too, and an exchange for what is offered. Thank you @CopperKnob made my old jaded heart sing.

[Ra****]

I agree with quite a bit of what you said here. However the part in which you say "If I were to top, I’d have to learn a whole new level of self-knowledge, develop some topnotch reflection skills and achieve enough mindfulness to be able to switch from sadistic to supportive in under a second. Worst of all, I’d have to gaze into my own abyss.
And you know what happens when you do that: The abyss gazes right back into you. Could I face my own inner monster without becoming it? I’m not so sure. " I don't agree with. As a sub you should do this just as much. And of course you can't face all the ***s and shadows inside of you but you should do your best to know them because otherwise your Top might put you in a situation in which you might face them and neither of you knows what to do. And that might happen anyway but at least you tried to figure yourself out first.
I think that if you are submitting to someone you should know yourself inside and out. More so than maybe a Top. They have the control over themselves and you. You are the one letting go. They need to be able to know you very very well. They can only know you if you know yourself. They are not the only beast in the game, you are too. Is it fair to ask someone to drop their mask if you're not ready to do so? I don't think so.
Anyway, just my perspective and I enjoyed reading what you wrote.

[Deleted Member]

Is it "gift" as in "talent" or "skill" or "attribute" it's a vocation isn't it?
Definitely not a present.
Does it really matter though? Its just words

[charlias]

Maybe its more like the gift of a weekend break to Sicily? You're both there, you both have fun, make some great memories... Maybe take some nice pics for the scrapbook ;) But it ends :( and you return to your normal lives.

[CopperKnob]

5 minutes ago, RavenSass said:

I agree with quite a bit of what you said here. However the part in which you say "If I were to top, I’d have to learn a whole new level of self-knowledge, develop some topnotch reflection skills and achieve enough mindfulness to be able to switch from sadistic to supportive in under a second. Worst of all, I’d have to gaze into my own abyss.
And you know what happens when you do that: The abyss gazes right back into you. Could I face my own inner monster without becoming it? I’m not so sure. " I don't agree with. As a sub you should do this just as much. And of course you can't face all the ***s and shadows inside of you but you should do your best to know them because otherwise your Top might put you in a situation in which you might face them and neither of you knows what to do. And that might happen anyway but at least you tried to figure yourself out first.
I think that if you are submitting to someone you should know yourself inside and out. More so than maybe a Top. They have the control over themselves and you. You are the one letting go. They need to be able to know you very very well. They can only know you if you know yourself. They are not the only beast in the game, you are too. Is it fair to ask someone to drop their mask if you're not ready to do so? I don't think so.
Anyway, just my perspective and I enjoyed reading what you wrote.

As a sub, I'm not switching from sadistic to supportive in the blink of an eye 

[ey****]

I tend to hate the whole "submission is a gift" thing - even if I see where a lot of folk come from with it (I think my problem is I see a lot of male subs use "submission is a gift" as some form of entitlement - but, it's kinda like a cat bringing in a dead bird, or socks for Christmas, just cos it's something you deem a gift doesn't mean the other person wants it or has use for it....)

   but then.... also... when you give someone a gift it's, well, a gift - nothing is expected in return whereas offering submission, if accepted, you gain their Dominance in return.  It's almost transactional. Ha. 

 

[li****]

I love this soooo much @CopperKnob thank you for sharing the side of Dominance that is very rarely talked about, and that is what they bring to the dynamic also. 

 

For me I've never ever seen submission as a gift it's something that is inside of me it's a part of me it's who I am it's who I identify as. I see my submission and me as a whole you have to earn it and me as a person not just my submission, just as I earn his Dominance, and the person he is too. Dominance and submission it's not something to be given willy-nilly, and then just all of a sudden say oh I want my gift back, yes you are allowed to revoke your submission to that Dom just as he can do the same. 

 

It's definitely an exchange like you say, it's give and take it's 50/50 you both give your D/s and you both take what the other is giving you back. There is no one has more than the other for example when people say the sub has all the control so what the Dom doesn't have any at all???!!! Makes my eyes roll that one lol 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️ hope that makes sense I'm hungry and waiting for my breakfast to come 🤣🤣🤣

Edited October 9, 2021 by lil-monster

[Cu****]

Yesterday you wrote, "My strength/independence etc is , for want of a better word, a 'gift'. And I love to give it to someone who can handle it." today you say that it's not.

[CopperKnob]

Just now, CumbriaLeather said:

Yesterday you wrote, "My strength/independence etc is , for want of a better word, a 'gift'. And I love to give it to someone who can handle it." today you say that it's not.

I also placed it in inverted comma's and said 'for want of a better word'

[CopperKnob]

1 minute ago, CumbriaLeather said:

Yesterday you wrote, "My strength/independence etc is , for want of a better word, a 'gift'. And I love to give it to someone who can handle it." today you say that it's not.

I also did not say my submission is a gift 🤷‍♀️

[CopperKnob]

[Go****]

Very beautifully and eloquently written lilm, they are both gifts, without one the other doesn’t exist. Both do have to continually work to keep that existence ignited and to evolve together as one in this beautiful place. The dynamic is the gift for both but to keep that sparkle and intrigue it cannot be chosen become stale and same old, it is something beautiful and exciting to make even more so together 💜🙏

[StickyTrickster]

4 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

I imagine that our ethical Dom's do enough mental gymnastics to win an Olympian medal, but we take that as a given. As expected. As called for.

If I were to top, I’d have to learn a whole new level of self-knowledge, develop some topnotch reflection skills and achieve enough mindfulness to be able to switch from sadistic to supportive in under a second. Worst of all, I’d have to gaze into my own abyss.

And you know what happens when you do that: The abyss gazes right back into you. Could I face my own inner monster without becoming it? I’m not so sure. That’s why the idea of topping terrifies me.

I don't think you give yourself enough credit.  Much of what you have written here makes me think that should you ever want to explore it that you'd be a good dom if you did.

The fact that you are scared of the idea of topping but chosen not to tells me a number of things.  One that you have considered it.  Two that whilst you've considered it you haven't run out and acting upon it without much care of the consequences.  Three that you place the welfare of your partner before any urges or desires you might have.  These traits are what differentiate someone that can pursue dominance from a good place rather than the bad ones that just immediately jump online and prey on any unsuspecting individual they can find.

4 hours ago, CopperKnob said:

I’m baffled by Doms. I’m profoundly grateful for your willingness to tie me up and spank me etc. (Thank you. Have some icecream. OK, that's enough) but, I don’t know how you find it in yourselves to hurt, albeit consenting, subjects. The idea of it terrifies me. What if I went too far? How would I cope with the guilt when the tears started falling? When would I cross the bridge between Evil Me and Gentle Me? Would I ever find my way back or do they nuke the bridge as soon as you reach the other side?

What if I discovered that I was more Ted Bundy than E Edward Grey?

As comfortable as I have got with my shadow side and dominance I hope I will always remain concerned about what might happen if I went too far.  Hubris doesn't manage one's own personal darkness, knowing the lines and limits you won't cross do.

I myself put off looking into my shadow for years.  I committed to not having the same sort of toxic relationship my parents had.  I made my partners' freedom and liberty a safeguard against that ever happening.  I shunned status symbols and keeping up appearances in favour of truth and authenticity - of both the warm connecting kind and the cold brutal kind.  I committed to putting others before myself - much to my masochistic side's probable enjoyment.  I explored various different kinks but for years skirted around BDSM afraid of what dark side exploring it might bring out in me.

As well as I had the black hole of my shadow under control to not expose it to the outside world I could not prevent it from turning on me.  It became the self loathing that fuelled bouts of depression.  It became the anger I directed at myself for not doing more to stand up for myself - despite being so good at doing it for others - when I should have been.

The thing about the shadow though is that whilst you can try seek to control it you can't defeat with direct confrontation, it is a part of yourself.  BUT what we often forget as we stand looking into the vast darkness and wonder how we can deal with it is that actually we as human beings have a marvellous ability to turn the darkness into light (we can also sadly do the opposite to but that is a subject for another time).

We can turn the darkest of moments and thoughts into the wickedly funny dark humour that can amuse not just us but others around us.  Our brains can turn traumatic events into kinks to derive future pleasure from.  The key to managing our shadows aren't completely bottling them up, nor are they to pass on the crap and anger people direct at us to someone else but instead to siphon the darkness to create something positive with it.

Now granted I'm not much of a physical sadist, I don't derive anything from giving a spanking or any *** play itself - though I do derive enjoyment from a masochistic partner's own enjoyment of my fulfilling those needs so am quite happy to spank and do *** play.  No I'm more an emotional sadist, enjoying things like teasing, denial and at its most darkest *** - but again I don't want to just go out humiliating anyone, and I certainly don't want to emotionally destroy a partner (indeed I enjoy being able to build them up and help them meet their own personal self development goals even more), no even with *** my desire is to pursue it with a partner that also gets enjoyment from it.  If I can channel my dark urges in such a way in which they they're also getting a pleasurable satisfaction I'm turning my dark urges into something mutually beneficial and good.  Whether they want to be my secret personal slut or they want me to make them a big sploshy mess or whether they want debasement another way is less important, I'm happy that my darker urges are bringing joy than genuine harm.

But having found ways to siphon of the darkness, with dark humour, exploring kinks in mutually beneficial ways etc the big black hole that was my shadow I feel is now no longer that big scary barely uncontrollable thing but more like the actual shadow that follows me during the day, a sort of companion that follows me everywhere with the dark sense of humour.  And I do say companion now as they do sometimes know what is best for me to say when I do need to stand up for myself.  But like any friend they can still be an arse at times but you don't always have to take your friends advice all the time.  They are now on an equal footing with me, not this giant blackhole and I can just as easily say no to them like saying no to a friend.  Just so long as I ensure I can find a positive outlet to satisfy them later so they don't revert back to their monstrous black hole ways.

Anyway I've blabbered on for far more than I should have so I'll shut my trap but just before I do.  I know you've stated how you wish to remain a submissive and that's absolutely fine and great if you do, but if for any reason you or anyone else reading this who has similar ***s about exploring a dominant side I am happy to talk through the emotional side and concerns people might have if they'd like to explore that part of themselves then feel free to drop me a message.  The ***s can be worked on.  Confidence is the exact same adrenalin rush as *** except that instead of wanting to run we know and have the experience of what to do that instead that rush energises us to 110% to be able to do what we know what we want and have to do.

[Leisa]

Thank you for this. I’m a switch and have ventured into both sides. After venturing into my D side it not only gave me a different perspective but a whole new understanding and respect for the tops role. I think as bottoms it is often forgotten that to be a total package it’s not just yourself you have to be aware of but that of the other as well. Maybe I’m different but I don’t engage in either role unless there’s a mental connection and caring that has to be shared. What each is giving in that pet wise moment is rare and precious that has value to each partner involved. I’m probably making a muck of it and let’s see if I can possibly reel myself in a become succinct. Both sides are comprised of trust and caring (I couldn’t play with someone who wasn’t) and mutual respect. Each role has its highs and lows, and while not quantified in dollars and cents, each side absolutely has it value. When I’m topping I have another putting their absolute trust and well-being into my, what I hope are, capable hands. When I’m bottoming, in that instance, I’m allowing myself the freedom to completely let go and become ***. Though there is vulnerability on both sides the moment a dynamic is formed it seems to me that it’s an equal exchange of trust and respect. Without one you do not have the other. Gift or not they are both precious and equally worthy though I find topping to be the more difficult of the two.

[Matttster]

I agree that gift may not be the best term to use. But it seems to be an easy way to help someone new to the scene understand that their submittance should be earned. A method to do help explain power exchange.

I understand that being dominant can be seen as a gift as well, especially a “good” Dom that can help fulfill the needs and desires of a submissive. But it should start with Dom earning the respect of the sub who than agrees to submit to the Dom.

[Leisa]

Copperknob if I haven’t said it I appreciate your posts. They are both introspective and humorous while leaving enough open spaces for discussion and exchange.

[CopperKnob]

21 minutes ago, Leisa said:

Copperknob if I haven’t said it I appreciate your posts. They are both introspective and humorous while leaving enough open spaces for discussion and exchange.

Thanks @leisa writing is how i untangle the thoughts in my head, stops me overthinking

[Dustykat]

You put everything in it’s proper place, I enjoy reading your posts 🧚🏻‍♀️

[SophieSubSlut11]

Ohhhhhh Sir is gonna love this. Another amazing one girl!

[Deleted Member]

What flavour ice-cream would that be ?

[Leisa]

4 minutes ago, lickitcleannow said:

What flavour ice-cream would that be ?

There are as many varieties of ice cream as there are subs. Just don’t make it vanilla

[CopperKnob]

27 minutes ago, Leisa said:

There are as many varieties of ice cream as there are subs. Just don’t make it vanilla

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Deleted Member]

1 hour ago, Leisa said:

There are as many varieties of ice cream as there are subs. Just don’t make it vanilla

Well obviously or there would only be one flavour if ice-cream in the world , it was directed at the poster, but I did have a good laugh driving to work imagining dumping anyone flavour of ice-cream in copperknob's lap and when I got the are you insane look saying "well it's not vanilla"

[CopperKnob]

17 minutes ago, lickitcleannow said:

Well obviously or there would only be one flavour if ice-cream in the world , it was directed at the poster, but I did have a good laugh driving to work imagining dumping anyone flavour of ice-cream in copperknob's lap and when I got the are you insane look saying "well it's not vanilla"

Well, it can go in a blinking bowl, I'm not a heathen!