Dominant (narcissistic) Sub

[Deleted Member]

Is it just me or are there quite a few people out there identifying themselves as sub while actually being quite passive aggressive dominant to the point of being covert or vulnerable narcissistic?

Maybe I’m not getting something even after being previously in D/s relationships for more than 20 years?

[Deleted Member]

Yes ...I see this a lot ... it's like fake subs

[ch****]

Me personally as a sub im emotional u cant just randomly start a conversation being aggressive and telling me what i am and what im not gonna go im a submissive brat yes but i u dont have to start a conversation with me treating me like trash u dont know what kind of day i had

[2fethers]

I have had 2 so caled subs that was not subs, & they dont last long, and when they show you up its time to go, what do they get from it?, still looking for a real sub,

[Tr****]

That’s topping from the bottom. Not inherently a bad thing, but definitely not the type of sub you want it seems lol

[Deleted Member]

20 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

That’s topping from the bottom. Not inherently a bad thing, but definitely not the type of sub you want it seems lol

I’m well aware of topping from the bottom and of course bratty behaviour. Quite enjoy both. I’m talking more about actual manipulation and gaslighting attempts. Moving things out of the play context afterwards not during play if you know what I mean. Also not talking about discussing her feelings that’s important but about passive aggressive manipulative behaviour in that.

[Deleted Member]

37 minutes ago, chocolate_submissive said:

Me personally as a sub im emotional u cant just randomly start a conversation being aggressive and telling me what i am and what im not gonna go im a submissive brat yes but i u dont have to start a conversation with me treating me like trash u dont know what kind of day i had

A dominant person should never treat you like trash but always with respect and not aggressive. Not talking about this in my post. Sorry if you had different experiences and I triggered something.

[Lord_Talion]

Sounds like brats

[la****]

Its called brats. And sub can be brats

[Deleted Member]

6 minutes ago, Lord_Talion said:

Sounds like brats

I agree it sounds like brats and indeed seems like brats or topping from the bottom at first. What I mean is something beyond that. The manipulative attempts when the initial manipulation attempt fails. Manipulation that goes to the core of a person with the full spectrum of gaslighting attempts. I’m afraid I’m quite good in making out such manipulation attempts having studies psychology though not a certified trained psychologist.

[Cheekysub247]

Could it just be their natural personality? A sub and narcissist? and you have unfortunately just found a handfull of them? If you take away their kink side/label ect, are they that way with everything in life or just when you seem to want to engage in 'kink'?

[Lo****]

I can’t speak for their being more narcissists within the numbers of subs here, but there certainly appear to be more among the Doms. If this dynamic/lifestyle is attracting them because it offers more opportunity for abusive behaviour, it seems reasonable to assume it will attract people who will pretend to be subs too. 

[Deleted Member]

4 minutes ago, Cheekysub247 said:

Could it just be their natural personality? A sub and narcissist? and you have unfortunately just found a handfull of them? If you take away their kink side/label ect, are they that way with everything in life or just when you seem to want to engage in 'kink'?

Yes - thank you. I agree. Exactly when you take away the kink and look beyond that.

[Deleted Member]

5 minutes ago, Lockfairy said:

I can’t speak for their being more narcissists within the numbers of subs here, but there certainly appear to be more among the Doms. If this dynamic/lifestyle is attracting them because it offers more opportunity for abusive behaviour, it seems reasonable to assume it will attract people who will pretend to be subs too. 

I don’t want to make this a numbers game yet I think the assumption about it being (even) more prevalent on the dominant side to be valid. One of the reasons I posted this. Could it be that based on their experiences with doms they don’t really know how to deal with one who’s not and actually cares? How to overcome such expectations based on experiences? Happy to develop myself there as well as I don’t wish to do people wrong and yet experiences remain experiences.

[Lo****]

Just now, GentlemanT said:

I don’t want to make this a numbers game yet I think the assumption about it being (even) more prevalent on the dominant side to be valid. One of the reasons I posted this. Could it be that based on their experiences with doms they don’t really know how to deal with one who’s not and actually cares? How to overcome such expectations based on experiences? Happy to develop myself there as well as I don’t wish to do people wrong and yet experiences remain experiences.

Your first comment, ‘quite a few people’, suggested you thought it was move prevalent here and I was putting forward a theory agreeing with you.

Personally, I think if subs have had bad experiences with dumbs, it’s more likely to make them wary and less likely to trust than to cause any passive aggressive or narcissistic behaviours. If people have those behaviours, I believe they already had them.

[Deleted Member]

3 minutes ago, Lockfairy said:

Your first comment, ‘quite a few people’, suggested you thought it was move prevalent here and I was putting forward a theory agreeing with you.

Personally, I think if subs have had bad experiences with dumbs, it’s more likely to make them wary and less likely to trust than to cause any passive aggressive or narcissistic behaviours. If people have those behaviours, I believe they already had them.

Point taken about my suggestion it would be more prevalent. I guess it just probably is in my experience unfortunately though that doesn’t mean it’s in general.

[la****]

Sub is a role, which in play they need to act like one. But that doesn't mean they can't think and need to be lead in all aspects. Think of it like this: d/s could be dangerous, so even as a sub we need to be wary of their potential partners at the first meeting. Trust are build slowly, not in a instances.

[Deleted Member]

Narcissistic term does get over used, in a lot of areas. The whole population as some point have acted in a manner that would tick box a description of narcissistic traits.

From my own research…
Most would agree to it being insecure, vulnerability. Not wanting it to be seen, not wanting to feel that emotion. Their trigger has reacted to the core default F3 response (fight, flight or freeze). The behaviour from that point can be automatic (adrenaline rush moment), as well as changing response to a more controlled learnt behaviour to keep themselves safe, in their own minds safety/threat prospective. Factually true or not to others. In most cases the receiver views it as an overreaction to the situation.
You may be seeing the effects of it more too, due to the internet usage. We now have a label that Society recognises under an umbrella of traits, for discussions/ debates. Socially our circles would have been a lot smaller in finding a partner without the internet. Therefore, more contact, increases the frequency of meeting a ‘narcissistic’ individual. I personally don’t believe it’s necessary higher or lower in subs. Just the effects of social awareness. The lookout effect.

[ey****]

I think a lot depends on the context

it's important for both/all parties to be happy in a relationship and so obviously if someone's style of submission, or personality or whatever isn't for you then you're not compatible 

there's also a lot of very different but valid dynamics so someone whose desired dynamic is different to yours doesn't make them 'fake' - a lot of the concept of 'genuine' sub seems to be people who think it should be a "you will do what I want, when I want or get punished how I want" when that should be a destination, if both agree, rather than a starting point.  It is going to take time and effort.

I know there was a time when some who felt they were submissive felt this was how they should be, because they knew none the better, but now of course there are more submissives who even if they are or desire being submissive in a more 'traditional' sense still have likes and needs they want met and that's not narcissistic. 

A lot of this is also agnostic to gender; when I think about it there might be a lot of male subs with bad approaches or ideas - but while they might be disappointed they can't find a Mistress it's probably be better them being single than in a situation they do not enjoy.

[Je****]

Yes it seems very common than people are passing shitty behaviour off as "domineering". They are usually quite easy to spot and their reactions when confronted kinda confirms it to be honest.

[so****]

YEEEEES!!! lol I'm glad someone finally brought this up. I've been noticing similar things, especially in recent years. But it's a subject ive learned to avoid, since people can get so defensive & upset when it's brought up.

[Deleted Member]

It is so, but… don’t you dare saying it loud, or you’ll be overwhelmed with comments from “politically correct doms”. In general every whining sub will be cuddled while every strict dom under criticism of a sub will be labelled as asshole, per default. Sign of the times. Just shrug and go your path, no need for applause of the audience.
Easy way of spotting fakes: I’ll comply IF YOU… etc”. No baby, you’re not dictating your terms: we’ll talk, get to know one another, so you can realize whether I fit in your picture and I’ll do the same. So the key seems to be: dialogue, patience, clear ideas of what one wants. Provided - of course - you’re looking for more than just a quick action. And then again, if you’re hungry and enter the first mcdonalds, don’t complain if you get shitty food 😉

[CopperKnob]

I think context is everything
Is it that some identifying as submissive put up walls particularly online/when first chatting to a potential Dom and this comes across as narcissistic/dominant? I've certainly given short shrift tespinses to those in my inbox.
Is it that there are so many 'doms' that take liberties have no idea that we struggle to know whose genuine/sincere and our initial responses will be very black and white?
Are we suggesting that submissives cannot put their view across, have boundaries/limits and express them clearly?
Is it that in day to day life some submissives are dominant in order to survive?
Is it that until a submissive is in a dynamic that they aren't actually submissive?
Is it that some submissives are 'bedroom only?
Do submissives like everyone have hormones/emotions and you may have actually got them at a bad time?
None of the above takes away the fact that they are actually submissive
Are those people you're talking about actually just manipulative people? As cheekysub has suggested?
The last point to consider, not everyone deals with a relationship ending well because they're hurting and it may be that things become 'petty'

[Char__]

Hmmm. I'm a dominant type person in real life but take on a submissive role in a dynamic as an escape from being constantly in control. Are we getting into the realm of who's a "real" submissive?? I will not be remotely submissive with you until I have decided you are worthy of that gift. Anyone who expects otherwise, I would suggest, is not a "real" Dominant.

[Deleted Member]

6 minutes ago, Lady_Char said:

Hmmm. I'm a dominant type person in real life but take on a submissive role in a dynamic as an escape from being constantly in control. Are we getting into the realm of who's a "real" submissive?? I will not be remotely submissive with you until I have decided you are worthy of that gift. Anyone who expects otherwise, I would suggest, is not a "real" Dominant.

Have to answer to that: couldn’t agree more. It’s the only way.