Ghosting - Let’s be Open and Honest Instead

[gi****]

23 hours ago, DaddysHere2please said:

With this lifestyle that’s based on connection, openness and honesty it’s time to be real with one another. If we aren’t feeling a connection, be open and honest.
No need to argue or fight
Make it a big deal
Just say this isn’t working and move on.
This ghosting trend is becoming and epidemic and the problem when it expands into a community like this it can cause more issues…
Remember these relationships are built on open, honest, trust…
That’s what makes it different, better…
So let’s be honest and kind when it’s not working…
And stop with the ghosting

 

what are your thoughts?

Late to this discussion, but thought I'd add couple of thoughts.  I've read through the entire thread, so will take that into account as I weigh in.  I always like to start with a common definition when looking at words like "ghosting" because they can have a lot of emotion involved.  This is the definition I found when I googled it: "the practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication"

Key for me here is "personal relationship."  I may feel that there is a connection between myself and another, without the other person actually agreeing with this.  They may not have felt anything, and may even have found my communications to be insistent, annoying, etc.  They may even have attempted to be "polite" with me by responding.  

A relationship is bi-directional.  It serves the needs of both parties.  Both parties have to agree that we are "in a relationship."  If that is what you are talking about, then I agree, ghosting is hard.  

But, if as some responses seem to imply, you are discussing a situation where we have talked for some time,; then it may be that one party may feel a connection that is not necessarily shared by the other party.  I think it's unfortunate, but that is a part of any situation like this.   I have seen this very thing happen at munches, bdsm events, etc.  

You mentioned that in the lifestyle relationships are built on being open and honest.  Key again here is that concept of relationship.  Are we in a relationship because we've talked several times?  Because we have shared of ourselves?  Or, are we in a relationship when we have both, mutually agreed, that we are connected in some way?  I would posit that the last one is what is needed to call it a relationship, particularly in this lifestyle.  There has to be explicit consent for there to be a relationship.  

People who have met me casually, who aren't in a relationship with me, are not responsible for my "abandonment issues" or my mental health. I have a responsibility, myself, to address those issues if they are triggered by someone's response. If we've both agreed that we are in a relationship, have entered into it mutually and consensually, then I would have different expectations.  

It's important, at least for me, to make those distinctions.  

[YorkshireBiker]

1 hour ago, gemini_man said:

Whilst I agree pretty much with your three categorisations the last one still requires some definition - because the connection has to be two-way for it to be ghosting.
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A lot of the time on sites like this the "connection" is perceived to be there by one side but not the other, the other seeing it as more chit chat back and forth.

I did try to create a distinction between 2 and 3 with 2 being justified or not, as it it was just chit chat and 3 where a connection HAS been made on both sides.

 

[De****]

2 hours ago, gemini_man said:

And if *you* had read the entirety of the thread you would see I actually posted very early on and have clearly been following it from pretty much the start - but that's semantics.
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I know you started off stating you weren't talking about initial or random messages - but the thread has come to encompass them also by other users and indeed a couple of posts you've made - so it's important to address that angle also.
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You've also obviously not read my other posts where I've said there is a balance between when something is ghosting and when it isn't, and that there are times when it is acceptable to do so, and others where it isn't.
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Then there's the point I also made where I said that sometimes the issue is one person may be more emotionally invested than the other, not because the other has encouraged or allowed it but because the one who's got invested has taken things out of context or read things into a situation that simply aren't there.
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Ultimately though what purpose does having an explanation for not wanting to continue contact serve? It doesn't change a thing and may sting just as much as being left wondering.
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Finally the "Thanks but no thanks" button is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot - *all* it does is stop people messaging - it doesn't prevent them viewing your profile or leaving comments on pictures etc - so by using it all it will do is see the most determined moving to do that to the point they get blocked completely. But the thing about that is it places the onus on the recipient to take action, when they really have no need to.
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As I said if people just accepted someone is not interested and took no response as a no thanks that's all it would take.
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I'd be interested in knowing how you define the point at which "there's enough there to make a person wonder what they did"? And is that point a mutual one, or a one sided one as perceived by the person wondering?

To follow up on your last point, even if someone sends the “no thanks message” the other person still doesn’t have closure. They still are going to left wondering what they did.

[Wy****]

2 hours ago, YorkshireBiker said:

There seems to be 3 different conversations mixing together here

Not replying to someone’s attempt to DM - I don’t think that’s ghosting so not really the point of the post

A bit of chit chat coming to an end - not specifically ghosting either but some people might feel ghosted weather justified or not  

Blocking/Ignoring someone after a connection has been made - I think this is the type of ghosting that would, on the face of it, be worthy of a reason unless it’s a safety issue. I’d still like to know though if I’ve done or said something that’s set off a red flag, or fight or flight response so I could learn from my mistake.

 

I dunno, if a person was giving me red flags the last thing I’d want to do is have a long uncomfortable conversation with them about that

[Sh****]

I agree, if someone is giving me red flags I’m just going to block them and don’t feel. I’m obligated to explain why. For example, I think I make it clear on my profile, but I’m after here, so if someone’s starting a conversation with their expectations of me And the honorifics I should use it’s unlikely to go anywhere. 

[Th****]

6 hours ago, DaddysHere2please said:

You keep trying to justify different types but if you read and payed attention I am referring to a very specific, your intention is to try and seem right and not come off like a frigid B, of course I’d never advocate for anyone to stay in a harmful place when it is clear by the original point I was calling for people to be more real, and even thoughtful.

Ope!!! There it is!!

 

You just proved the whole point right there. You got your feelings hurt and became abusive. What happened to being "better" huh? 

[Th****]

3 hours ago, YorkshireBiker said:

I did try to create a distinction between 2 and 3 with 2 being justified or not, as it it was just chit chat and 3 where a connection HAS been made on both sides.

 

That's the thing though that connection needs to be voiced out loud by *both* parties and discussed. Not just be felt one sided and assumed that the other person feels the same. Then a discussion about what *kind* of connection? 

I feel like I have a connection with several people here in this thread, but the type of connection, I would label as a friendly connection or friendly acquaintance. Not something necessarily as profound as what I think most here are talking about. 

 

I'd also like to add that with many of the chit chat conversations that come to an end there's likely plenty of people who feel like the person on the other end wouldn't be willing to continue if invited. Again, several people in this thread even that I might not have talked to in a while but my DMs are always open to them. 

[CopperKnob]

Its interesting, to me, that the title of the OP is "let's be honest and open" (paraphrased) and has cited that this is of utmost importance in the BDSM community for the simple reason that we, in this community, should and do hold ourselves to higher standards.
Fair do's
And yet has consistently argued/denied any comments that are of a different discourse to their own.
That's not creating an environment which allows for the requested/assumed open and honest communication. And, if we're relating that to the BDSM community, well, I think it's clear where my thought processes are going here.
Rather than running roughshod over people's thoughts/views/opinions, maybe consider why they're expressing their perspectives as to why, lets call it what it is, they cease contact with another. I might even suggest that this behaviour is just one likely factor.

[ge****]

6 hours ago, YorkshireBiker said:

I did try to create a distinction between 2 and 3 with 2 being justified or not, as it it was just chit chat and 3 where a connection HAS been made on both sides.

 

Oh I know and where it *has* been made on *both* sides then yes that would be ghosting - but my point was it's often the case that it's one-sided perception that it has where someone is reading a lot more into a situation than the other

[ey****]

The first thing about ghosting and honesty - is that - too many people call things "ghosting" which are not.

Did you go to meet someone for a coffee and they no showed and when you tried to message them to say "hey, where are you?" found they've deleted their apps - ghosted

did you meet someone and have sex with them and now they don't return your calls - ghosted

did you message them back and forth and it get nowhere* and they stopped replying - then, no, you're not ghosted. (*even if you think it was)

And yeah, it sucks.  But there we go.  Maybe the other person found you boring.  But this doesn't mean you are boring. Maybe the other person was talking to someone else and things were going somewhere with them so didn't want to lead you on. Maybe you were setting off red flags. Maybe someone else on the site startled them and now they haven't logged in or aren't replying to anyone. Maybe their private life has derailed things.

And the list is endless.  And you might never know. But you have to be good without ever knowing.  Part of dealing with rejection is that you sometimes have to deal with this without demanding (further) labour from the other person just because they're not presently interested

[Deleted Member]

Totally agree. Just face up to things and communicate

[Tr****]

Idk wyldKatt I don't think it's gotta be all that epically if the red flag thing is in play there.... what I feel like he's getting at is its okay to say" bro just no.... and now it's time for you to go...." maybe state a reason your feeling that way giving the other person a chance to know why and reflect upon that for their next encounter. No it's not really your responsibility to do it .... in fact you do you boo. But being ghosted often isn't because of major red flags but over something small at least that's what my on the street poll of 5000 men and women ( honestly more women than men chose to anwser ) but according to the anwsers I got to this when I literally polled folks on the street in a few major cities in the USA it leaves the person confused and wondering WTF they did wrong and when you don't know what you did how can you be expected to fix it or change it?

[Tr****]

But maybe I'm reading too much into it....

[Br****]

I agree with you but I think sometimes ghosting can be necessary if you’ve stated that you don’t want that connection with that person anymore and they refuse to respect your decision.

[Il****]

Here, I'm trying very hard to not ghost, if I do, it's because I stopped coming on the app for a while because opening it is too much (happened once).
But I do use the block and hide/delete often.
Because men doesn't care when I say no.
My filter are sets for over 40 yo, and when someone of the age of my daughter (19yo) come to talk to me, I say. It makes me feel like a pedophile. Doesn't mean the guy isn't an adult, it means that I cannot do it.
And yet, they insist and insist and argue and whatever.
So I block

[kok1069]

Not necessarily here in this environment, but more of what I'm seeing and not sure if goes with what's being discussed. I know being left on read was a big thing for a while. Is being left unread the new thing? Like I'll get to you when I get to you. Days to a week go by and they just message out of the blue like everything is fine. When they do message it's like they are all about you. I'm not sure which feeling is worse...

[YorkshireBiker]

16 hours ago, WyldKatt said:

I dunno, if a person was giving me red flags the last thing I’d want to do is have a long uncomfortable conversation with them about that

While I do understand that completely, surely there is also an aspect of people learning and growing from their mistakes or misunderstandings of a situation? I get that when you feel your safety is at stake, that takes priority but if people don’t get the opportunity to learn, they never will.

i don’t know the answer to that maybe I’m being naive. I’m lucky I’ve never been is that position so I don’t have any actual experience to call on. 

[CopperKnob]

17 hours ago, ThaliaV said:

Ope!!! There it is!!

 

You just proved the whole point right there. You got your feelings hurt and became abusive. What happened to being "better" huh? 

I can't see this response other than in your quote, I'm guessing this was directed at me 🤣😂
True colours show, just a matter of time 😉

[CopperKnob]

3 hours ago, YorkshireBiker said:

While I do understand that completely, surely there is also an aspect of people learning and growing from their mistakes or misunderstandings of a situation? I get that when you feel your safety is at stake, that takes priority but if people don’t get the opportunity to learn, they never will.

i don’t know the answer to that maybe I’m being naive. I’m lucky I’ve never been is that position so I don’t have any actual experience to call on. 

Feel free to head over to the Online Munch forum and see this evenings comments on the OP title 'I love giving head for hours'
Whilst it isn't related to ghosting, it is relevant to giving people learning opportunities and how that is received in the OLD world. It might be enlightening to some

[ey****]

let us just say also that everyone decides they will no longer deliberately abandon conversations and will give a formal reason for ending interactions

there's reasons why this is unrealistic, for example that a lot of conversations are abandoned and it is not deliberate ("I'll get back to that soon") or where someone is weighing up whether they will respond, or where actually the last message in the chain didn't warrant a reply. (i.e. "Hi, how are you?", "I'm good, how are you?", "Good to hear it. I'm ok" - basic, but at this point there's no prompt to reply.  It's not "ghosting" that someone doesn't reply the "Good to hear it, I'm ok" there's nothing for them to go on and, they may well be waiting for the other person to actually spit out what they want and not do the whole small talk thing)

and I know some folk say they would respond well to "helpful feedback" but, come on - if people were being truly honest, "I find you unattractive", "you're boring", "you're kinda creepy", "yeah, I found someone else more interesting" there's only gonna be so much of that you're gonna take

especially if it's the guys who send out 100 messages  

[Wy****]

I guess I think you can learn from your mistakes without having to ask the person what you did wrong. You try different things, learn from people who others seem to like and try to highlight the best parts of your own personality. You can adjust and reflect completely on your own. When more people like you and stick around more and for longer then you will know you have a winning formula. It’s also important to recognize that no matter who you are, you can never be all things to all people. Some just aren’t a good match and no amount of conversation or reflection will change that.

[Tr****]

I swear some people make it a point to miss the point

[Th****]

10 hours ago, kok1069 said:

Not necessarily here in this environment, but more of what I'm seeing and not sure if goes with what's being discussed. I know being left on read was a big thing for a while. Is being left unread the new thing? Like I'll get to you when I get to you. Days to a week go by and they just message out of the blue like everything is fine. When they do message it's like they are all about you. I'm not sure which feeling is worse...

I honestly do not understand any of that. It's so silly and immature to me. I've had many people hurt their own feelings because I've supposedly "left them on read" 🙄

 

Sometimes people see a message, read it but don't have the time or mental energy to respond at the moment and it takes a bit to get back around. Like @eyemblacksheep mentioned. If someone's message is a statement and nothing open ended that leaves anything for a response what's someone supposed to do? It's exhausting to have someone else initiate contact only for me to feel like I'm the one doing the heavy lifting to get or keep a conversation going. 

 

Do the things you mentioned suck? Yes. But it's a thing that happens and it's our own responsibilities to manage our feelings about stuff in life. It might take some effort and practice but really working on shifting your mindset and expectations about these things really does help. 

[Th****]

4 hours ago, eyemblacksheep said:

let us just say also that everyone decides they will no longer deliberately abandon conversations and will give a formal reason for ending interactions

there's reasons why this is unrealistic, for example that a lot of conversations are abandoned and it is not deliberate ("I'll get back to that soon") or where someone is weighing up whether they will respond, or where actually the last message in the chain didn't warrant a reply. (i.e. "Hi, how are you?", "I'm good, how are you?", "Good to hear it. I'm ok" - basic, but at this point there's no prompt to reply.  It's not "ghosting" that someone doesn't reply the "Good to hear it, I'm ok" there's nothing for them to go on and, they may well be waiting for the other person to actually spit out what they want and not do the whole small talk thing)

and I know some folk say they would respond well to "helpful feedback" but, come on - if people were being truly honest, "I find you unattractive", "you're boring", "you're kinda creepy", "yeah, I found someone else more interesting" there's only gonna be so much of that you're gonna take

especially if it's the guys who send out 100 messages  

So much of this.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who've been in my inbox who would claim I've "ghosted" them just because the conversation came to a halt because they send messages that are statements with nowhere for me to go with them or I would have been willing to talk to again or continue to talk to them but I'm not going to be the one to do the work to keep things going when they're the one's who initiated and aren't putting in equal effort.  It's exhausting. 

[gi****]

I'm gonna be honest I struggle with this. I feel scared sometimes the I struggle with communicating and the easiest option is to just stop and move on. But I really love this perspective and it helps me a lot! Thanks!